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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting
for ARIN Elections (Azinger, Marla)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2022 22:14:58 +0000
From: "Azinger, Marla" <[email protected]>
To: Adam Thompson <[email protected]>, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single
Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections
Message-ID:
<mw4pr06mb8316fb397bd196b82df3fcc1e4...@mw4pr06mb8316.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
If you are in fact a contractor doing actual work and not just a troll that has
befriended someone at an ISP promising faith to vote in their best interest,
then you are working for that company. Contracted personnel are employees.
That said. One person voting on behalf of several different companies is not
diversity in any leap of the imagination.
Again. No matter what is done here, there will always be gaming. Just looking
at changing how this works is gaming.
I?m kinda sorry I wasted my time reading this thread and responding at all.
Marla Azinger | SPVR, IP Management
O 585-413-9128 | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
[cid:[email protected]][cid:[email protected]]
[cid:[email protected]] [cid:[email protected]]
www.frontier.com<http://www.frontier.com>
From: Adam Thompson <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 2:01 PM
To: Azinger, Marla <[email protected]>; [email protected];
[email protected]
Subject: RE: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable
Voting for ARIN Elections
Nope. I have been hired three times in the past to cast an ARIN vote for
someone else because they didn?t want to take the time to figure it out.
I would say that organization experience defines the difference in perspective
here: contracting out core functions is 100% normal up here, especially for
smaller orgs. So ?if they don?t work for the company? is not a valid test for
? by my best estimation ? at least tens of thousands of companies that will
shortly be eligible to vote. If you?ve never worked in that sort of
environment, it may seem strange. I can think of several local companies that
are ARIN orgs, off the top of my head, that have ZERO employees ? only
contractors.
-Adam
Adam Thompson
Consultant, Infrastructure Services
[MERLIN]
100 - 135 Innovation Drive
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8
(204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
www.merlin.mb.ca<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.merlin.mb.ca/__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!aC-U4Mi8fjtx00j6-gibiFNIcded-dQ49QX64nAG-g3z6sSEUt91v_fpZWDYVyyF$>
From: Azinger, Marla <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 3:58 PM
To: Adam Thompson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable
Voting for ARIN Elections
To identify the abusers you would simply have to look at the list of voters and
what ORG ID?s they have control over. If they don?t work for the company they
shouldn?t be controlling its votes.
I don?t agree that proxy should exist. And yes it is another form of voter
abuse. Clearly, we will not agree on this.
Marla Azinger | SPVR, IP Management
O 585-413-9128 | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
[cid:[email protected]][cid:[email protected]][cid:[email protected]]
[cid:[email protected]]
www.frontier.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.frontier.com__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!aC-U4Mi8fjtx00j6-gibiFNIcded-dQ49QX64nAG-g3z6sSEUt91v_fpZTaEb77n$>
From: Adam Thompson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 1:54 PM
To: Azinger, Marla <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable
Voting for ARIN Elections
There are two big reasons: apathy and limited staff time. Most small ISPs
simply don?t care about ARIN governance, 99.999% of the time, and don?t have
time to learn enough to discover how/what/when/where they should care. ARIN is
just a force of nature they have to content with when they need more resources?
In general, I don?t agree with you, at least not entirely: if a contractor is
voting in the best interests of a client, with the client?s full knowledge, and
is doing so for more than one client simultaneously, that?s still 100% legit.
Expecting company owners to maintain a PoC and vote is not realistic, at least
based on all the company owners I know (with perhaps a lone exception). And
there is validation, of sorts: if someone votes against the interests of their
client, a) they?re cutting their own throat, albeit indirectly, and b) if it?s
discovered, they likely get fired or equivalent.
So If someone has voting rights for an org that they have no legal/contractual
relationship with, then that?s an odd situation. Either it?s ?legacy?, i.e.
left over from when it was legit, which is very hard to fix in general, or it?s
a situation that probably should never have happened in the first place. I?d
be happy to see ways to solve those problems? assuming there?s any evidence
whatsoever that it?s actually a problem in the first place.
-Adam
Adam Thompson
Consultant, Infrastructure Services
[MERLIN]
100 - 135 Innovation Drive
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8
(204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
www.merlin.mb.ca<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.merlin.mb.ca/__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!eqdKUWFgrdNnlUOh2EI-oFETtgpJtz7T7PmhXF9h3YIx1XAMo5-wLaC2LnrmVsNx$>
From: Azinger, Marla <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 3:01 PM
To: Adam Thompson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable
Voting for ARIN Elections
If ARIN is looking for people that actually want to be involved to cast the
voting and really care, the votes would best be cast by anything other than a
proxy.
I find proxy voters don?t always care what the desire of the company is and
there is no validation being done they casted votes how the owner of the vote
would actually want.
I?m not a fan of proxy this day in age. Proxy to me is a throw back to before
online voting occurred. There?s no reason a company cant vote on their own.
Marla Azinger | SPVR, IP Management
O 585-413-9128 | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
[cid:[email protected]][cid:[email protected]][cid:[email protected]]
[cid:[email protected]]
www.frontier.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.frontier.com__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!eqdKUWFgrdNnlUOh2EI-oFETtgpJtz7T7PmhXF9h3YIx1XAMo5-wLaC2LofU2RgS$>
From: Adam Thompson <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 12:02 PM
To: Azinger, Marla <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable
Voting for ARIN Elections
Not sure that?s low-hanging fruit, tbh. Besides MERLIN, I still have voting
rights for ? 3? local ISPs, who are all aware of that and OK with that. In any
other arena, that?s just holding a proxy vote, which is not a big deal.
What sort of problems have you seen in this area (that I obviously haven?t)?
-Adam
Adam Thompson
Consultant, Infrastructure Services
[MERLIN]
100 - 135 Innovation Drive
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8
(204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
www.merlin.mb.ca<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.merlin.mb.ca/__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!c2ZEjGLTpLzzB0NcqRhddq0ebLp4mUbzhD5ajlW6BmGWGO6t7IJUsP104NmK_RnB$>
From: ARIN-consult
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf
Of Azinger, Marla
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 1:53 PM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>;
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable
Voting for ARIN Elections
All of this is gaming no matter how you slice it.
Silly me. I looked at the title and thought efforts were under way to stop one
person from casting votes for companies they don?t actually work for but I
didn?t read that in the write up. I would have thought we?d start there? if
anything needs modification?
Marla Azinger | SPVR, IP Management
O 585-413-9128 | [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
[cid:[email protected]][cid:[email protected]][cid:[email protected]]
[cid:[email protected]]
www.frontier.com<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.frontier.com__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!c2ZEjGLTpLzzB0NcqRhddq0ebLp4mUbzhD5ajlW6BmGWGO6t7IJUsP104CKB559o$>
From: ARIN-consult
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf
Of Andrew Dul
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 11:40 AM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable
Voting for ARIN Elections
________________________________
WARNING: External email. Please verify sender before opening attachments or
clicking on links.
________________________________
Perhaps a simple question, but "how" will the current board insure that future
board(s) do not capriciously change the election mechanisms in the future?
Making the changes to the "election process" subject to a majority vote of the
membership and having that right inserted into the bylaws might be one method...
Thanks,
Andrew
On 1/7/2022 10:31 AM, Peter Harrison wrote:
Adam,
As stated before, it is the Board's fiduciary responsibility to ensure that a
change of this magnitude is equitable and not vulnerable to capricious change.
We will act appropriately based on this feedback.
Peter
On Fri, Jan 7, 2022 at 10:03 AM Adam Thompson
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Peter, I don?t have a problem with STV. I do have a problem with the board
having the latitude ? unfettered ? to keep changing voting systems without
further bylaw amendments. The type of voting structure, particularly when
deviating from the norm that?s baked into Virginia law, should then be baked
into the bylaws so that it can?t change in the middle of the night, perhaps
even during an election.
Do I trust the current board to not pull stuff like that? Yeah, probably, I
think... (In fact, can I even name the current board members? No. But that?s
a different problem.) Am I willing to blindly trust every future board that
might exist? Absolutely not. I?ve seen how boards can be co-opted,
infiltrated, and/or ?turned to the dark side? (so to speak) elsewhere.
As far as the consultation?s goal to determine whether STV is OK or not? Yes,
it is good. This is an excellent move overall.
-Adam
Adam Thompson
Consultant, Infrastructure Services
[MERLIN]
100 - 135 Innovation Drive
Winnipeg, MB, R3T 6A8
(204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
www.merlin.mb.ca<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http:/www.merlin.mb.ca/__;!!M2UytebrhrTR!ZZ9nY7Iqm8q8pZkxsQXDwXKKBYnBxxrhgUQsk72I0lQSknZQozPO16VzGTEuxAE9$>
From: ARIN-consult
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf
Of Peter Harrison
Sent: Friday, January 7, 2022 11:53 AM
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable
Voting for ARIN Elections
Dear Community,
With STV there are many ways to re-allocate votes, and new ones may be
invented. The videos presented previously illustrated one method.
This link explains some of the options:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting#Comparison_of_ranked_voting_methods<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranked_voting*Comparison_of_ranked_voting_methods__;Iw!!M2UytebrhrTR!ZZ9nY7Iqm8q8pZkxsQXDwXKKBYnBxxrhgUQsk72I0lQSknZQozPO16VzGa2rUE66$>
We will need to balance the range of options with those provided by current and
future vendors of ARIN?s voting systems. Investigations are being made by staff
and they will make recommendations to the board based on their research into
our needs, best practices, practicability, relative merit, legal implications
and systems availability.
The purpose of the consultation is to get a sense of whether this is a good
idea overall. The board will work hard to ensure that we are working in the
best interest of the members and the region they serve when evaluating the
choices presented.
As John explained, the bylaw modification was made to accommodate multiple
forms of voting that may be required in future. The concern that this could
lead to opportunistic changes to systems each election cycle is sound. We will
investigate ways to ensure this does not happen with possible bylaw wording to
meet these and other goals.
The Governance Working Group has worked very closely with both the executive
team and staff on this consultation. Their support for a workable solution and
concern for the membership has been evident every step of the way. These
consultations are the result of over two years of research and were not taken
lightly. We will continue to work to maintain this excellent collaboration.
Thank you for your feedback.
Peter
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