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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting
for ARIN Elections (Owen DeLong)
2. Re: Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting
for ARIN Elections (William Herrin)
3. Re: Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting
for ARIN Elections (Owen DeLong)
4. Re: Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting
for ARIN Elections (Adam Thompson)
5. Re: Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable Voting
for ARIN Elections (Jo Rhett)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:45:40 -0800
From: Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com>
To: Jo Rhett <j...@jorhett.com>
Cc: "Azinger, Marla" <marla.azin...@ftr.com>, "arin-consult@arin.net"
<arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single
Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections
Message-ID: <f5e3b881-45e3-42ca-b331-a56d31682...@delong.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> On Jan 26, 2022, at 13:46 , Jo Rhett <j...@jorhett.com> wrote:
>
>> I would accept ?Has no business affiliation with? or ?Is not an authorized
>> agent of? or other similar language
>
> I think ?an authorized agent? is key. There are many people with affiliations
> or who are even employees that a business may not desire to vote on their
> behalf.
>
Sure, but in such a case, isn?t it safe to presume that said organization would
not make them the Designated Voting Contact in such a case?
Owen
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 12:59:33 -0800
From: William Herrin <b...@herrin.us>
Cc: "<arin-consult@arin.net>" <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single
Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections
Message-ID:
<cap-gugx8xcqmzhtpz0rlvh+qggwuweoeafah4dmhaxmr90y...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 8:38 AM ARIN <i...@arin.net> wrote:
> One recommendation that has arisen from this governance review is to replace
> the current first-past-the-post (FPTP) voting system with single
> transferrable voting (STV), also known as ranked-choice voting. STV would
> provide the ability for the community to realize the following primary
> benefits:
Hello,
Since the consultation is coming to a close, I want to take a moment
to reiterate:
I respectfully OPPOSE a transition to STV voting due to the
demonstrated mathematical flaws in the process.
STV as proposed in the consultation can lead to unexpected and
undesirable results including:
* defeat of the plurality candidate who got the most votes
* election of a candidate opposed by a clear majority of voters
It can reach these undesired results because the math involved in the
instant-runoff process amplifies the impact of some votes while
effectively nullifying others. I went through the math back in my
early January posts if you want to see how that happens.
Regards,
Bill Herrin
--
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:02:17 -0800
From: Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com>
To: William Herrin <b...@herrin.us>
Cc: "<arin-consult@arin.net>" <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single
Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections
Message-ID: <c25566cf-718d-4a60-93c9-8e37810c1...@delong.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> On Feb 10, 2022, at 12:59 , William Herrin <b...@herrin.us> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Jan 6, 2022 at 8:38 AM ARIN <i...@arin.net> wrote:
>> One recommendation that has arisen from this governance review is to replace
>> the current first-past-the-post (FPTP) voting system with single
>> transferrable voting (STV), also known as ranked-choice voting. STV would
>> provide the ability for the community to realize the following primary
>> benefits:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> Since the consultation is coming to a close, I want to take a moment
> to reiterate:
>
> I respectfully OPPOSE a transition to STV voting due to the
> demonstrated mathematical flaws in the process.
>
> STV as proposed in the consultation can lead to unexpected and
> undesirable results including:
> * defeat of the plurality candidate who got the most votes
> * election of a candidate opposed by a clear majority of voters
>
> It can reach these undesired results because the math involved in the
> instant-runoff process amplifies the impact of some votes while
> effectively nullifying others. I went through the math back in my
> early January posts if you want to see how that happens.
Since we are reiterating here? I will reiterate my support for the transition
to STV.
The examples Bill cited of how the math can go awry are woefully tortured.
Further, he puts quite
a bit of inference of voter intent into his conclusions that may differ from
actual voter intent.
Owen
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 23:01:53 +0000
From: Adam Thompson <athom...@athompso.net>
To: Owen DeLong <o...@delong.com>, Jo Rhett <j...@jorhett.com>
Cc: "arin-consult@arin.net" <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single
Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections
Message-ID:
<yt2pr01mb462291b08bbed12f18b0652bab...@yt2pr01mb4622.canprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Throwing this thought out: what if everyone CAN vote (unlike what ARIN's doing
with the 1.5-tier system right now, which I think is... not great), BUT an
authorized user or contact must re-designate the voting contact every year?
Certainly doesn't eliminate all possibilities for fraud, but could reduce some
of the ways people think this is being abused today?
-Adam
-----Original Message-----
From: ARIN-consult <arin-consult-boun...@arin.net> On Behalf Of Owen DeLong via
ARIN-consult
Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2022 2:46 PM
To: Jo Rhett <j...@jorhett.com>
Cc: arin-consult@arin.net
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single Transferrable
Voting for ARIN Elections
> On Jan 26, 2022, at 13:46 , Jo Rhett <j...@jorhett.com> wrote:
>
>> I would accept ?Has no business affiliation with? or ?Is not an authorized
>> agent of? or other similar language
>
> I think ?an authorized agent? is key. There are many people with affiliations
> or who are even employees that a business may not desire to vote on their
> behalf.
>
Sure, but in such a case, isn?t it safe to presume that said organization would
not make them the Designated Voting Contact in such a case?
Owen
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 10 Feb 2022 16:04:25 -0800
From: Jo Rhett <g...@jorhett.com>
To: "<arin-consult@arin.net>" <arin-consult@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on Implementing Single
Transferrable Voting for ARIN Elections
Message-ID: <853656cd-ae54-4b86-8419-bf1fe19a6...@jorhett.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
> STV as proposed in the consultation can lead to unexpected and
> undesirable results including:
> * defeat of the plurality candidate who got the most votes
Defeat of one who got the most votes in the first count, but does not have a
clear majority of voters behind them
> * election of a candidate opposed by a clear majority of voters
no, that flaw is owned exclusively by standard voting. It is not possible for a
candidate who is opposed by 51% of voters to win an election with STV
> It can reach these undesired results because the math involved in the
> instant-runoff process
is misunderstood by you ;-)
> amplifies the impact of some votes while effectively nullifying others.
Any one vote which opposes any other vote effectively nullifys them. You made
that case yourself in your "proofs" and then claimed the opposite.
> I went through the math back in my early January posts if you want to see how
> that happens.
You made a lot of statements your own "math" doesn't justify, and you repeated
lots of claims made by opponents of STV in California who have been proven
wrong by more than a decade of data.
STV is well-proven, peer-reviewed, and consistently produces the actual will of
the voting populace time and again.
--
Jo Rhett
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