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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Consultation on ASN Fee Harmonization (John Curran)
2. Re: Consultation on ASN Fee Harmonization (Andrei)
3. Re: Consultation on ASN Fee Harmonization (John Curran)
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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 11:43:52 +0000
From: John Curran <[email protected]>
To: Andrei <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on ASN Fee Harmonization
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Jul 11, 2023, at 7:33 AM, Andrei via ARIN-consult <[email protected]>
wrote:
...
If, for example, on X-Small plan you pay $1,000 per year for holding a maximum
of /20 IPv4 and /32 IPv6, why don't you add a 3rd resource for ASN? Each RSP
plan to include a max. number of ASNs without any fee and if exceeded, to
choose either to upgrade to the next slab or to start paying for setup fee if
the amount of included ASNs is exceeded?
Andrei -
This is essentially the approach that is being proposed in the ASN Fee
Harmonization proposal ? ARIN proposes adding a third column to the RSP plan
fee schedule with each size category covering a certain number of ASNs.
As per the original consultation ?
In 2022, ARIN transitioned end user customers to the RSP fee schedule based on
total IPv4 and IPv6 resources held, to ensure costs were distributed in an
equitable manner by eliminating the fee differentiation between ISP and end
user organizations. Now ARIN is seeking community feedback on a plan to
complete the fee harmonization process by transitioning ASNs to the RSP Fee
Schedule.
Proposed Fee Harmonization (all fees in USD)
- Organizations holding 1-3 ASNs will be categorized as 3X-Small, with an
annual fee of $250.
- Organizations holding 4-15 ASNs will be categorized as 2X-Small, with an
annual fee of $500.
- Organizations holding 16-63 ASNs will be categorized as X-Small, with an
annual fee of $1000.
- Organizations holding 64-255 ASNs will be categorized as Small, with an
annual fee of $2000.
- Organizations holding 256+ ASNs will be categorized as Medium, with an annual
fee of $4000.
If I understand correctly, I believe the refinement that you are proposing is
that once an organization has a Registration Services Plan, they not pay setup
fees for additional ASNs.
That is an excellent suggestion well worth considering (and would be similar to
how requests for IPv4/IPv6 resources are handled under an RSP place today...)
Thanks for the feedback!
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:48:21 +0300
From: Andrei <[email protected]>
To: John Curran <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on ASN Fee Harmonization
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
Hi John,
Yeah, that's basically what I suggested. To waive the setup fee for ASN
allocation, should a LIR have a RSP plan active.
Could be a little bit lowered for individuals and educational/research
networks, but that may open a little door for abusive allocations (eg.
GRE-tunneled IXP for "research").
I'm very glad you actually considered my feedback, would be amazing if
will be implemented as well.
Thank you,
Andrei.
On 2023-07-11 2:43 PM, John Curran wrote:
>
>> On Jul 11, 2023, at 7:33 AM, Andrei via ARIN-consult
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> ...
>> If, for example, on X-Small plan you pay $1,000 per year for holding
>> a maximum of /20 IPv4 and /32 IPv6, why don't you add a 3rd resource
>> for ASN? Each RSP plan to include a max. number of ASNs without any
>> fee and if exceeded, to choose either to upgrade to the next slab or
>> to start paying for setup fee if the amount of included ASNs is exceeded?
>
> Andrei -
>
> This is essentially the approach that is being proposed in the ASN Fee
> Harmonization proposal ? ARIN proposes adding a third column to the
> RSP plan fee schedule with each size category covering a certain
> number of ASNs.
>
> As per the original consultation ?
>
>
>>> In 2022, ARIN transitioned end user customers to the RSP fee
>>> schedule based on total IPv4 and IPv6 resources held, to ensure
>>> costs were distributed in an equitable manner by eliminating the
>>> fee differentiation between ISP and end user organizations. Now
>>> ARIN is seeking community feedback on a plan to complete the fee
>>> harmonization process by transitioning ASNs to the RSP Fee Schedule.
>>>
>>> Proposed Fee Harmonization (all fees in USD)
>>>
>>> - Organizations holding 1-3 ASNs will be categorized as
>>> 3X-Small, with an annual fee of $250.
>>> - Organizations holding 4-15 ASNs will be categorized as
>>> 2X-Small, with an annual fee of $500.
>>> - Organizations holding 16-63 ASNs will be categorized as
>>> X-Small, with an annual fee of $1000.
>>> - Organizations holding 64-255 ASNs will be categorized as
>>> Small, with an annual fee of $2000.
>>> - Organizations holding 256+ ASNs will be categorized as Medium,
>>> with an annual fee of $4000.
>
>
> If I understand correctly, I believe the refinement that you are
> proposing is that once an organization has a Registration Services
> Plan, they not pay setup fees for additional ASNs.
>
> That is an excellent suggestion well worth considering (and would be
> similar to how requests for IPv4/IPv6 resources are handled under an
> RSP place today...)
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
> /John
>
> John Curran
> President and CEO
> American Registry for Internet Numbers
>
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2023 14:49:43 +0000
From: John Curran <[email protected]>
To: Steve Noble <[email protected]>
Cc: "<[email protected]>" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [ARIN-consult] Consultation on ASN Fee Harmonization
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
On Jul 10, 2023, at 11:48 PM, Steve Noble <[email protected]> wrote:
On Jul 10, 2023, at 3:02 PM, John Curran
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
On Jul 10, 2023, at 2:28 PM, Steve Noble
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
...
The ~6800 are ASN-Only holders (no IPv4 or IPv6 resources) with a single ASN.
The 313 are ASN-Only holders (no IPv4 or IPv6 resources) who have multiple
ASNs.
John -
You did not answer the question, the 6800 is approximate, ARIN must know the
actual number.
The number changes over time. Today, the number of customers who only have
ASNs is: 7169. Of these, 324 have multiple ASNs, and 6845 have just one ASN.
2. How many single ASN holding organizations are members of this mailing list?
Unknown. The arin-consult mailing list is open to all interested parties who
comply the Mailing List AUP and ARIN Participants Expected Standards of
Behavior ? these are not correlated to ASN holders.
This is concerning since 6800+ organizations would be affected and may not know
so since they have not been members and would not be part of the members
mailing list, etc.
Correct. While all interested parties (who comply with the AUP and standards
of behavior) can participate in arin-consult, they are presently not able to
become ARIN member or participate in ARIN governance, including voting and the
general members mailing list. That is something that would change as a result
of the ASN fee harmonization proposal ? all customers who have ASNs would be
service members and could opt to be general members if they so wished.
...
8. For due diligence, based on the data ARIN has compiled, how many of those
single ASN organizations would qualify for IPv4 resources and be approved and
have them allocated within the billing period that this change would happen?
Does ARIN have 6800 /24 IPv4 blocks available to allocate to the affected
parties?
They would all qualify for IPv4 or IPv6 if they are running a network and using
their ASN to run BGP. It probably goes without saying that there is more than
enough IPv6 resources for all ASN-only customers...
For IPv4 resources, many would end up on the IPv4 waiting list today, but note
that for those who wish to run IPv6, there is enough 4.10 transition IPv4 space
(~14.5k /24s are available under 4.10 as of June 2023) to theoretically issue
4.10 IPv4 transition blocks to all of the ASN-Only holders.
I think that is a false equivalence comparing transition space to available
space. For example I applied for my ASN 23 years ago, IPv4 space was much
easier to get. Had you charged the same fee whether I had space or not, I
would have applied for space.
You asked about IPv4 blocks available to allocate to the affected parties, and
the answer is that both IPv4 waiting list resources and NRPM 4.10 transitional
IPv4 space (for those who are also running IPv6) are available for ASN holders
? and would not change their 3X-small fee category if they were issued a /24
IPv4 block in either manner.
...
This change provides for recovering costs more equitably for services to across
the ARIN customer base, with the added benefit of making ASN-only customers
ARIN Service Members, thus providing them with the opportunity to become
General Members and participate in ARIN governance if they so choose.
John - How much does it cost to provide service to an ASN only holder? What
actual, tangible benefit do they get with this change? The affected
organizations could have asked to be members or for IP space the entire time.
ASN-only customers are not (and cannot become) ARIN members today ? that is
only available to customers with IPv4 or IPv6 resources under a Registration
Services Plan (RSP).
ARIN has to recover costs fairly across its entire customer base. At present,
all customers holding IPv4 resources and/or IPv6 resources are treated
similarly based on their total resources held and the corresponding category on
the RSP fee schedule.
Size categories on the RSP fee schedule span a 4x increase in total resources
held, and then the next higher category begins with an annual fee twice that of
the smaller category ? thus the fees scale with resources held.
This is not the case for those with ASNs ? they pay a fee for each and every
ASN, and furthermore do not gain the ability to be ARIN members and this is not
equitable treatment compared to RSP customers.
In addition, for those with IPv4 and/or IPv6 under a Registration Services Plan
and also who have ASNs, their total number of ASN?s has no effect of their size
category on the fee schedule or fees charged (their ASN maintenance cost is
subsumed by the RSP plan) ? even if they have hundreds of ASNs and very small
IPv4/IPv6 holdings. This obviously isn?t equitable when compared to those who
have to pay the per-ASN maintenance fees today.
If the ASN fee harmonization is adopted, all ARIN customers will pay the same
fees based their size category that us based on total resources held
(regardless of whether those number resources are IPv4, IPv6, ASNs, or some
combination), and all will be service members ? with the option of becoming a
general member and participating in ARIN governance and voting if they so
choose.
Thanks!
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
American Registry for Internet Numbers
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