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Today's Topics:
1. Re: REVISED: Draft Policy ARIN-2012-8: Aligning 8.2 and 8.3
Transfer Policy (Milton L Mueller)
2. Re: REVISED: Draft Policy ARIN-2012-8: Aligning 8.2 and 8.3
Transfer Policy (John Curran)
3. Re: REVISED: Draft Policy ARIN-2012-8: Aligning 8.2 and 8.3
Transfer Policy (Chris Grundemann)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 13:49:16 +0000
From: Milton L Mueller <[email protected]>
To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] REVISED: Draft Policy ARIN-2012-8: Aligning
8.2 and 8.3 Transfer Policy
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I cannot support this policy. It seems to be ARIN attempting to unilaterally
change the terms of a contract or assert control simply because a transfer of
existing rights has taken place through a merger or acquisition. If a company
acquires another company it should acquire the rights that the existing company
has. I see no justification for ARIN seizing upon the transfer as an excuse to
change those rights.
On process grounds I also think it it bit unseemly for the AC to send this to
last call a few days before a new elected AC comes into office. I think it
should wait and allow the new crew to deal with it.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> Behalf Of David Farmer
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:44 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] REVISED: Draft Policy ARIN-2012-8: Aligning 8.2
> and 8.3 Transfer Policy
>
> Depending on the traditions you follow, the holidays are or very soon
> will be upon us; Nevertheless, please look at the following text and
> provide your comments to the AC.
>
> BE ADVISED, the AC is likely to consider sending this text to last call
> at its meeting next week. Please let us know your opinion, even if it
> is you simply support or not the text as written.
>
> Thanks and Happy Holidays.
>
> On 11/26/12 15:25 , Chris Grundemann wrote:
> > I made some updates based on feedback received here, the new text is
> as follows:
> >
> > ----8<----8<----
> > Replace the first paragraph of section 8.2 with the following (second
> > paragraph remains unchanged):
> >
> > ARIN will consider requests for the transfer of number resources in
> > the case of mergers and acquisitions under the following conditions:
> >
> > * The new entity must provide evidence that they have acquired assets
> > that use the resources transferred from the current registrant. ARIN
> > will maintain an up-to-date list of acceptable types of documentation.
> > * The current registrant must not be involved in any dispute as to the
> > status of the transferred resources.
> > * The new entity must sign an RSA covering all transferred resources.
> > * The transferred resources will be subject to ARIN policies.
> > * The minimum transfer size is the smaller of the original allocation
> > size or the applicable minimum allocation size in current policy.
> > ----8<----8<----
> >
> > Cheers,
> > ~Chris
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Nov 19, 2012, at 7:56 PM, Jimmy Hess <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 11/19/12, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> IOW, I want to avoid extending the more lenient 8.2 provisions to a
> >>>> sale where someone buys $100,000 worth of IP addresses and $20,000
> >>>> worth of hardware and then sells the hardware to $SCRAP_DEALER just
> >>>> to keep the addresses.
> >>>
> >>> IP addresses don't belong to hardware; IP addresses belong to IP
> >>> interfaces, attached to hardware, in order to provide connectivity
> to
> >>> a network node for communicating or offering a service. A change
> >>> of hardware does not imply that the need for the logical IP
> interface
> >>> goes away. If you send a router to a scrap dealer, that doesn't
> >>> mean all the networks it routed necessarily go away.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The above statement was short-hand to explain my intent, not an
> >> absolute statement implying that addresses were attached directly to
> hardware.
> >> Put it back in context with what I was responding to.
> >>
> >>> What about cases, where the acquiring organization finds the
> hardware
> >>> _belongs_ with $TRASH_COLLECTION or $SCRAP_DEALER due to the
> >>> obsolescence of said decrepit hardware, and after acquiring, they
> >>> will make a non-disruptive reallocation of the hardware used to
> >>> provide IT services? Probably by re-consolidating on new
> >>> hardware.
> >>>
> >>
> >> The policy language I proposed would not preclude this.
> >>
> >>> That kind of restructuring does not make renumbering reasonable and
> >>> doesn't belong under 8.3.
> >>
> >> Agreed. However, I want to make sure that 8.2 does not get abused to
> >> back-door 8.3 style transfers by adding hardware to the mix and
> >> pretending it is an acquisition of a working network.
> >>
> >> Owen
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> PPML
> >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> >> Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
> >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> ================================================
> David Farmer Email: [email protected]
> Office of Information Technology
> University of Minnesota
> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815
> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952
> ================================================
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 14:01:09 +0000
From: John Curran <[email protected]>
To: Milton L Mueller <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] REVISED: Draft Policy ARIN-2012-8: Aligning
8.2 and 8.3 Transfer Policy
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Dec 13, 2012, at 5:49 AM, Milton L Mueller <[email protected]> wrote:
> I cannot support this policy. It seems to be ARIN attempting to unilaterally
> change the terms of a contract or assert control simply because a transfer of
> existing rights has taken place through a merger or acquisition. If a company
> acquires another company it should acquire the rights that the existing
> company has. I see no justification for ARIN seizing upon the transfer as an
> excuse to change those rights.
Milton -
Could you elaborate why you feel that the draft policy would result in "ARIN
attempting to unilaterally change the terms of a contract or assert control"
during a transfer? This might be helpful to others considering this draft
policy and its implications.
Thanks!
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 07:32:53 -0700
From: Chris Grundemann <[email protected]>
To: Milton L Mueller <[email protected]>
Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] REVISED: Draft Policy ARIN-2012-8: Aligning
8.2 and 8.3 Transfer Policy
Message-ID:
<CAC1-dtmCU78YjodAwdpgWuLc=nls9fzgeox0xzfekeyl9bs...@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
On Dec 13, 2012 6:50 AM, "Milton L Mueller" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> On process grounds I also think it it bit unseemly for the AC to send
this to last call a few days before a new elected AC comes into office. I
think it should wait and allow the new crew to deal with it.
>
[CLG] While I respect that view, I cannot agree in the slightest. ARIN
holds two public policy meetings each year and under the current policy
development process those two meetings are central to the adoption of
policy. As such, if we were to stall after every October meeting because
there are also elections held, we would become much less effective.
There is good reason for only five of the fifteen AC seats to open each
year. This provides continuity and allows our work to proceed unhindered.
I believe it would actually be a grave disservice to the community if we
were to stall the process now.
Plus, any policy sent to last call this month will be voted on by the "new
elected" AC next month before it can be recommended for adoption, so the
"new crew" will indeed get to "deal with it." Which I am looking forward to
- welcome to the AC Milton!
Cheers,
~Chris
my android sent this
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
> > Behalf Of David Farmer
> > Sent: Monday, December 10, 2012 5:44 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] REVISED: Draft Policy ARIN-2012-8: Aligning 8.2
> > and 8.3 Transfer Policy
> >
> > Depending on the traditions you follow, the holidays are or very soon
> > will be upon us; Nevertheless, please look at the following text and
> > provide your comments to the AC.
> >
> > BE ADVISED, the AC is likely to consider sending this text to last call
> > at its meeting next week. Please let us know your opinion, even if it
> > is you simply support or not the text as written.
> >
> > Thanks and Happy Holidays.
> >
> > On 11/26/12 15:25 , Chris Grundemann wrote:
> > > I made some updates based on feedback received here, the new text is
> > as follows:
> > >
> > > ----8<----8<----
> > > Replace the first paragraph of section 8.2 with the following (second
> > > paragraph remains unchanged):
> > >
> > > ARIN will consider requests for the transfer of number resources in
> > > the case of mergers and acquisitions under the following conditions:
> > >
> > > * The new entity must provide evidence that they have acquired assets
> > > that use the resources transferred from the current registrant. ARIN
> > > will maintain an up-to-date list of acceptable types of documentation.
> > > * The current registrant must not be involved in any dispute as to the
> > > status of the transferred resources.
> > > * The new entity must sign an RSA covering all transferred resources.
> > > * The transferred resources will be subject to ARIN policies.
> > > * The minimum transfer size is the smaller of the original allocation
> > > size or the applicable minimum allocation size in current policy.
> > > ----8<----8<----
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > ~Chris
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 9:39 PM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Nov 19, 2012, at 7:56 PM, Jimmy Hess <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 11/19/12, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>> IOW, I want to avoid extending the more lenient 8.2 provisions to a
> > >>>> sale where someone buys $100,000 worth of IP addresses and $20,000
> > >>>> worth of hardware and then sells the hardware to $SCRAP_DEALER just
> > >>>> to keep the addresses.
> > >>>
> > >>> IP addresses don't belong to hardware; IP addresses belong to IP
> > >>> interfaces, attached to hardware, in order to provide connectivity
> > to
> > >>> a network node for communicating or offering a service. A change
> > >>> of hardware does not imply that the need for the logical IP
> > interface
> > >>> goes away. If you send a router to a scrap dealer, that doesn't
> > >>> mean all the networks it routed necessarily go away.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> The above statement was short-hand to explain my intent, not an
> > >> absolute statement implying that addresses were attached directly to
> > hardware.
> > >> Put it back in context with what I was responding to.
> > >>
> > >>> What about cases, where the acquiring organization finds the
> > hardware
> > >>> _belongs_ with $TRASH_COLLECTION or $SCRAP_DEALER due to the
> > >>> obsolescence of said decrepit hardware, and after acquiring, they
> > >>> will make a non-disruptive reallocation of the hardware used to
> > >>> provide IT services? Probably by re-consolidating on new
> > >>> hardware.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> The policy language I proposed would not preclude this.
> > >>
> > >>> That kind of restructuring does not make renumbering reasonable and
> > >>> doesn't belong under 8.3.
> > >>
> > >> Agreed. However, I want to make sure that 8.2 does not get abused to
> > >> back-door 8.3 style transfers by adding hardware to the mix and
> > >> pretending it is an acquisition of a working network.
> > >>
> > >> Owen
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> PPML
> > >> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> > >> Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
> > >> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> > >> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> > >> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ================================================
> > David Farmer Email: [email protected]
> > Office of Information Technology
> > University of Minnesota
> > 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815
> > Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952
> > ================================================
> > _______________________________________________
> > PPML
> > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> > Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
> > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> > http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
> _______________________________________________
> PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to
> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
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