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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Clean up definition of LIR/ISP vs. end-user (John Curran)
2. Re: Clean up definition of LIR/ISP vs. end-user (Steven Ryerse)
3. Re: Clean up definition of LIR/ISP vs. end-user (John Curran)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 03:03:45 +0000
From: John Curran <[email protected]>
To: Steven Ryerse <[email protected]>
Cc: ARIN-PPML List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Clean up definition of LIR/ISP vs. end-user
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
On Apr 30, 2013, at 9:45 PM, Steven Ryerse
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
It means that allocations should be made by a combination of the size of the
organization and the size of their network and maybe the total size of their
current allocations. There should never be a time when the allocation by Arin
is zero. Arin?s mission is to allocate - and it isn?t to not allocate.
We run a small data center and we run BGP and should easily be able to qualify
for a /22 (which I believe is the current minimum block size Arin allocates per
current policy) and maybe even qualify for a /21. ... We were denied a /22
allocation ? the minimum size this ?community? has decided to allocate -
because of ?policy?
This is why it is important to remember that such a practice originated even
before
ARIN's formation, and it is not about conservation of address space as much as
it
is about encouraging routing aggregation by making use of hierarchical
addressing
(as described in the following text from RFC 2050, November 1996) -
" ISPs who exchange routing information with other ISPs at multiple
locations and operate without default routing may request space
directly from the regional registry in its geographical area. ...
To facilitate hierarchical addressing, implemented using Classless
Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR), all other ISPs should request address
space directly from its upstream provider. "
Whether such a practice is still relevant certainly should be discussed by the
community,
but encouraging use of address space from the upstream provider has been
fundamental
principle of the Internet Registry System since inception. ARIN reflects this
for IPv4
in NRPM 4.1.1 (General Principles/Routability) and in the initial ISP
allocation policy.
FYI,
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
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Message: 2
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 03:28:59 +0000
From: Steven Ryerse <[email protected]>
To: John Curran <[email protected]>
Cc: ARIN-PPML List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Clean up definition of LIR/ISP vs. end-user
Message-ID:
<5b9e90747fa2974d91a54fcfa1b8ad1201313db...@eni-mail.eclipse-networks.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
So then the logical question that I would ask is: As a matter of current
policy and practice does Arin first require an organization that requests say a
/17 to request one first from a larger say /12 upstream before Arin will
allocate the block, or maybe a /14 from an upstream /8, or /whatever from a
larger upstream /whatever? What if the larger upstream refuses the smaller
organization the requested size block? Does Arin require larger allocation
holders to honor smaller allocation requests as a condition of their
allocation? What about an organization who runs BGP and needs an independent
block but their upstream doesn't want to permanently give them what they
consider a large portion of their own assigned block because it is somewhat
difficult for them to get more resources from Arin?
And most importantly if this is current policy, does Arin actually enforce it
every time for every organization no matter what their size or the size of
their request? If not then fair is fair and everyone should be treated equally
albeit adjusted for their size and the size of their request.
From: John Curran [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 11:04 PM
To: Steven Ryerse
Cc: ARIN-PPML List
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Clean up definition of LIR/ISP vs. end-user
On Apr 30, 2013, at 9:45 PM, Steven Ryerse
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
It means that allocations should be made by a combination of the size of the
organization and the size of their network and maybe the total size of their
current allocations. There should never be a time when the allocation by Arin
is zero. Arin's mission is to allocate - and it isn't to not allocate.
We run a small data center and we run BGP and should easily be able to qualify
for a /22 (which I believe is the current minimum block size Arin allocates per
current policy) and maybe even qualify for a /21. ... We were denied a /22
allocation - the minimum size this "community" has decided to allocate -
because of "policy"
This is why it is important to remember that such a practice originated even
before
ARIN's formation, and it is not about conservation of address space as much as
it
is about encouraging routing aggregation by making use of hierarchical
addressing
(as described in the following text from RFC 2050, November 1996) -
" ISPs who exchange routing information with other ISPs at multiple
locations and operate without default routing may request space
directly from the regional registry in its geographical area. ...
To facilitate hierarchical addressing, implemented using Classless
Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR), all other ISPs should request address
space directly from its upstream provider. "
Whether such a practice is still relevant certainly should be discussed by the
community,
but encouraging use of address space from the upstream provider has been
fundamental
principle of the Internet Registry System since inception. ARIN reflects this
for IPv4
in NRPM 4.1.1 (General Principles/Routability) and in the initial ISP
allocation policy.
FYI,
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 1 May 2013 03:34:21 +0000
From: John Curran <[email protected]>
To: Steven Ryerse <[email protected]>
Cc: ARIN-PPML List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Clean up definition of LIR/ISP vs. end-user
Message-ID:
<[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
On Apr 30, 2013, at 11:28 PM, Steven Ryerse
<[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
wrote:
So then the logical question that I would ask is: As a matter of current
policy and practice does Arin first require an organization that requests say a
/17 to request one first from a larger say /12 upstream before Arin will
allocate the block, or maybe a /14 from an upstream /8, or /whatever from a
larger upstream /whatever? What if the larger upstream refuses the smaller
organization the requested size block? Does Arin require larger allocation
holders to honor smaller allocation requests as a condition of their
allocation? What about an organization who runs BGP and needs an independent
block but their upstream doesn?t want to permanently give them what they
consider a large portion of their own assigned block because it is somewhat
difficult for them to get more resources from Arin?
And most importantly if this is current policy, does Arin actually enforce it
every time for every organization no matter what their size or the size of
their request? If not then fair is fair and everyone should be treated equally
albeit adjusted for their size and the size of their request.
Steven -
There is an initial allocation policy (which ISPs must meet to receive their
first
allocation from ARIN), and then there is additional ISP allocation policy
applies
to all future requests. This is regardless of the size of the request or
size of the
organization requesting.
FYI,
/John
John Curran
President and CEO
ARIN
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