Please remember that ARIN just reported to us that 51% of all fulfilled IPv4 requests in 2013 YTD have been to new entrants, and 86% of end-user requests fulfilled were to new entrants. In my experience these are generally just businesses trying to run or improve their network, often by establishing BGP multi-homed ness for the first time, and desiring to do so with an addressing schema independent of their current carriers.
Respectfully, Bill, most of these new entrants haven't missed the boat. They're still finding their way through the terminal looking for ... wait for it ... CLUE *big grin* David R Huberman Microsoft Corporation Senior IT/OPS Program Manager (GFS) ________________________________ From: [email protected] <[email protected]> on behalf of Bill Darte <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, December 7, 2013 4:34:04 AM To: Jason Schiller Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] IANA advice re: Post Exhaustion IPv4 Allocation That about sums my feeling about it. This is not an earth-shaking issue from my point of view. If RIRs and their constituents are at a point where the scraps of v4 returned to IANA are that important to their business processes, then they have missed the boat. Happy Holidays to all..... On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 8:08 PM, Jason Schiller <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Bill, I appreciate you thoughts on this matter, but I am not sure how to translate that to actionable advice to IANA who wants to make sure their process is clear, and the community is not surprised by what ever action they take. I think it boils down to IANA does not have to wait for the next six month window to open the first time it draws down from the Recovered IPv4 Pool, but they can use their discretion and wait for the window if the window opening is close, or if there is other significantly sized space whose return is eminent. ___Jason On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Bill Darte <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: I hear what you are saying, and I do think that the issue is discretion. IF there is little to no addresses in the pool, then wait...however long, until the next window opens, hoping that some returns will happen. IF it were known that some returns were likely or in process, then wait until they are available to add to what exists or reach the threshold of distribution. I think this is less an issue of timing and more an issue of management and discretion. Without the fuzziness of the language, that discretion is unavailable. Still, honestly, I don't think this is a burning issue either way. IMO the likelihood of large pools of returned addresses being available when there is a market for them is unlikely and later when there is less demand perhaps, then who cares.... bd On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 11:48 PM, Jason Schiller <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: David, Bill, Does it make sense to wait even if the next window is only a month away? The policy states the the IP space is divided 5 ways equally and the pool emptied except for the remainder. This means it is unlikey additional IPs will be returned to IANA in the next month, and when the next window opens up in a month there will be nothing to allocate to the RIRs. In fact we could go a full year with no IP space returned in which case two windows would open and close and the RIRs would get no allocations. The reason for only making the allocation every 6 months is to allow enough time to collect IP addresses and calculate a sizable chunk to each RIR rather than splitting every /21 into five /24s with a remainder of thee /24s. At this point IANA has already been collecting IPs since 02/03/2011, much longer than 6 months. Thoughts? If you still think it makes sense to wait, where would you draw the line? Less than 3 months to a window then wait? __Jason On Thu, Dec 5, 2013 at 1:33 PM, David Farmer <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Jason, I agree with the general intent of what you have written below. However, I believe the "may begin" was used to allow IANA and the RIRs some flexibility to do the "right thing" based on the circumstances at the time when one of the RIRs drops below /9. One situation where it might be the right thing to wait, is if one of the RIRs drops below /9 just before one of the prescribed dates (March 1, or September 1), like within a month or less. In this circumstance, I think it would be best to just wait for the next prescribed date, rather than make the initial disbursement and then make a scheduled disbursement less than a month later. Where as, if one of the prescribed dates has just past, then it makes no sense to wait the nearly 6 months for the next prescribed date. Thanks. On 12/4/13, 07:37 , Jason Schiller wrote: It seems fairly clear to me that that the policy instructs IANA to make the first allocation immediately upon one RIR dropping below a /9 inventory, and there after must wait until the next 6-month window opens up for subsequent allocations. The window serves to allow IANA to collect IPs in its Recovered IPv4 Pool, and then have fixed point in time when the amount of IPs is totaled and divided. At the time the first RIR drops below a /9, IANA will have already had sufficient time to collect IPs. It also seems obvious to me that, there is a fair bit of complexity in describing this behavior and if the authors desired IANA to wait for the next 6-month window to open, then this policy text would have been much shorter. If you think this policy suggests the IANA should wait for the next 6-month window to open, please speak up. Thanks, __Jason On Wed, Dec 4, 2013 at 8:07 AM, Jason Schiller <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>> wrote: I wanted to advise the community, and seek its input on the question of when IANA should make its first allocation from the Recovered IPv4 Pool. It seems some read the global policy and conclude that the Recovered IPv4 Pool becomes active immediately after one RIR dipping below a /9 of inventory and IANA should straight away make an allocation and then make its next allocation after crossing the next 6-month period starting on March 1st or September 1st. It seems some read the global policy and conclude that the IANA should make its first allocation from the after crossing the next 6-month period starting on March 1st or September 1st after one RIR dipping below a /9 of inventory. In short should IANA make an allocation after one RIR dipping below a /9 of inventory or should it wait until the next 6-month period opens up? Below is the email we have received regarding this question: Dear Louie, As you chair the ASO AC, I am seeking your guidance on the interpretation of the Global Policy for Post Exhaustion IPv4 Allocation Mechanisms by the IANA, which was ratified in May 2012. The global policy defines states that "Allocations from the IANA may begin once the pool is declared active." It is not clear whether this means that allocation from the Recovered IPv4 Pool should be made straight away or whether they should happen at the start of the next "IPv4 allocation period," the "6-month period following 1 March or 1 September." We hope you can advise us on the intended meaning of this sentence, so that we can implement the policy appropriately. We look forward to receiving your response on this question of interpretation of the Global Policy for Post Exhaustion IPv4 Allocation Mechanisms by the IANA. Kind regards, Leo Vegoda ICANN -- _______________________________________________________ Jason Schiller|NetOps|[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>|571-266-0006<tel:571-266-0006> <tel:571-266-0006<tel:571-266-0006>> -- _______________________________________________________ Jason Schiller|NetOps|[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> <mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>|571-266-0006<tel:571-266-0006> _______________________________________________ PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> if you experience any issues. -- ================================================ David Farmer Email: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Office of Information Technology University of Minnesota 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 1-612-626-0815<tel:1-612-626-0815> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 1-612-812-9952<tel:1-612-812-9952> ================================================ -- _______________________________________________________ Jason Schiller|NetOps|[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>|571-266-0006<tel:571-266-0006> _______________________________________________ PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: http://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> if you experience any issues. -- _______________________________________________________ Jason Schiller|NetOps|[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>|571-266-0006<tel:571-266-0006>
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