+1
I also support this policy change proposal.
regards,
elvis
On 2/19/16 11:01 AM, Mike Burns wrote:
Hi McTim,
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/ipv4-transfers-in-the-ripe-ncc-service-region
That RIPE labs report is not evidence of the speculation we are considering in
the context of the current policy.
You are opposing this policy because you think it will enable/encourage
speculation in the transfer market.
This policy is related to transfers, not to over-allocations made under the old
regime.
This particular country's addresses were not purchased on the transfer market. They were
accumulated prior to exhaust under the then-extant needs-based allocations policies, aka
longstanding policies, aka proper stewardship. And then (somewhat) after exhaust via
gaming the "/22 for new ISPs" rule at RIPE.
This is not evidence of speculation on the transfer market, it is merely the
evidence that market forces act on this resource already. They can induce
corruption, rules-avoidance, oh yes indeed they can.
But as I sort of said, that genie is out of the bottle.
We should be attentive related to evidence of this kind of speculation
involving allocations from the final free pool in AFRINIC, I am sure we both
agree on that.
Changing the rules about needs-testing paid transfers is not going to
enable/encourage or disable/discourage profit and rent-seeking. Profit and
rent-seeking is allowed under current policy and will happen regardless of
policy anyway.
That won't be significantly changed by maintaining needs tests for ARIN
transfers.
After all, if you can't justify, become a RIPE member and buy RIPE addresses.
It's as simple as that.
Anybody can do it, plus they get a /22 for their trouble! And then they can
buy RIPE addresses without demonstrating need.
So what is the point of retaining this needs test in the current environment?
We can't stop market forces from acting on IPv4 addresses, but we should
understand that these forces can also induce the movement of unused resources
into productive use. In fact that is the natural thing. We have brokered the
sale of so many blocks which were unused for decades. This is evidence of this
positive effect of the market.
Now since I have admitted that market forces can lead to corruption and
rules-avoidance, can you acknowledge that bringing dusty old blocks back into
productive use is a positive effect of the market?
One ideologue to another ? ;-)
Anyway I guess we both understand each other's positions by now, so I will just
register my support for the policy and step off the soapbox.
Regards,
Mike
PS made it to the end without mentioning Whois accuracy!
-----Original Message-----
From: McTim [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, February 19, 2016 12:17 PM
To: Mike Burns <[email protected]>
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 128, Issue 7
On Fri, Feb 19, 2016 at 10:49 AM, Mike Burns <[email protected]> wrote:
The existence of your company and other "brokers" isn't evidence
enough that people want to make money solely by buying and selling v4 resources?
Methinks you fail to see the forest for the trees!
Regards,
McTim
Hi McTim,
I'm really not sure what you are saying above, but actually the
existence of brokers like me is in fact evidence that people want to
make money solely by buying and selling IPv4 addresses.
Of course, there has been speculation going on for years in the EU.
Look at the top ten by country table near the bottom of this page:
https://labs.ripe.net/Members/wilhelm/ipv4-transfers-in-the-ripe-ncc-service-region
and ask yourself why one small country punches above its weight in exported v4.
While these PI blocks were acquired within policy, it is clear that they were
obtained for later resale, which is definition #2 below:
spec·u·la·tion
ˌspekyəˈlāSH(ə)n/
noun
1.
the forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.
"there has been widespread speculation that he plans to quit"
2.
investment in stocks, property, or other ventures in the hope of gain but with
the risk of loss.
"the company's move into property speculation"
So I am not in favor of removing restrictions on bad behaviour just because
some have engaged in said behaviour in other regions. I am not saying this is
fraudulent behaviour, but certainly speculative in nature and not in the best
interests of the Internet community. That of course is my ideology showing,
and I make no bones about it.
I am a big fan of accuracy in public network information databases, which is why I authored
"no reverse without assignment" in the AFRINIC region, so the whole "you don't
care about registry accuracy' argument doesn't fly with me.
--
Cheers,
McTim
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