/47 or more addresses is intended to be /47, /46 ..... /1 and not the
reverse. The current language is "/64 or more", and I read that same
phrase as /64, /63 ..... /1. For comparison, the current IPv4
language is "/29 or more", and that seems clear to mean /29, /28 ..... /1,
and not the reverse. I do not think the "/X or more" language in the
current NRPM or the proposal is unclear.
As far as the remainder, I read this draft as two statements connected
with an OR. Thus there are 2 classes of assignments that are required to
be SWIP'ed. They are:
1) ANY IPv6 assignment containing a /47 or more addresses.
2) ANY sub-delegation of any size that will be individually announced.
Due to rules for the GRT, this means /49 or less is not covered by 2).
However, should the rules for the GRT ever change, 2) will cover it. The
intent of 2) is to require SWIP on ALL sub-delegations, without expressing
that level, which is outside of ARIN control.
I do agree that "will be" is a problem as to WHEN to SWIP. This is best
corrected by changing that to "is". 6.5.5.2 the next section makes it
clear that the time frame to SWIP is within 7 calendar days of the
assignment being made.
As far as John's comment, this proposal began with a suggestion that
changed the v4 requirement as well, making both "more than 16" networks or
IPv4 addresses. Since changing the v4 language from 8 addresses to more
than 16 addresses was clearly not desired by the community, the v4
language was removed from the draft. The comments still reflect that the
equality of the policy between v4 and v6 was the original idea. You are
correct that this draft now is only about changing the v6 part. Are you
suggesting that the older portions of description that are no longer in
it, due to the community input needs to be removed?
Albert Erdmann
Network Administrator
Paradise On Line Inc.
On Sun, 23 Jul 2017, Scott Leibrand wrote:
No. It says:
Each static IPv6 assignment containing a /47 or more addresses, or
sub-delegation of any size that will be individually announced, shall be
registered in the WHOIS directory
I read that as:
Each static IPv6 assignment containing a /47 or more addresses, and each
sub-delegation of any size that will be individually announced, shall be
registered in the WHOIS directory
So a /48 sub-delegation shall be registered if it will be individually
announced.
You said:
To be explicit, to me, "/47 or more addresses, or sub-delegation of any
size that will be individually announced," refers to /47s, /46s, /45s
... and not /48s, /49s, /50s, etc.
That entire quoted clause refers to /48s (or longer, if such becomes
possible) that will be individually announced. So your clarification, as
originally stated, does not match my reading of the text. However, it
now sounds like that's not what you meant, and you were trying to say:
To be explicit, to me, "/47 or more addresses," refers to /47s, /46s,
/45s ... and not /48s, /49s, /50s, etc.
If that's what you actually meant, then yes, that is the way to read
"more": as equivalent to "/47 or shorter".
Leif, it seems like we have some potential ambiguity in the new text as
to whether "or sub-delegation of any size" is part of the subject of the
sentence, or a subordinate clause to "containing". Does my rewrite above
clarify your intent? Or were you intending it to mean "Each static IPv6
assignment containing a ... sub-delegation of any size that will be
individually announced, shall be registered in the WHOIS directory"?
That interpretation makes no sense to me, as the sub-delegation clause
would be redundant. So if that's what you meant, I'd appreciate some
clarity on what it is intended to accomplish.
Scott
On Jul 23, 2017, at 8:35 PM, John Springer <[email protected]> wrote:
Thanks, Scott,
Are we energetically agreeing? You scared me there for a second. /48s
are excluded, unless they are part of a "subdelegation of any size that
will be individually announced". Yes.
How is that defined by the way? Will be individually announced in 2
years, 2 days, right now?
On another matter, this problem statement has been making me uneasy all
along, but because it was only required to be clear and in scope to be
accepted as Draft Policy, it was not appropriate for me to object. This
seems like as good a time as any to address some concerns, which are my
opinions only.
"Current ARIN policy has different WHOIS directory registration
requirements for IPv4 vs IPv6 address assignments."
This is a correct statement! It is not a problem however, nor is it
sufficient motive for trying to solve a problem, per se.
"IPv4 registration is triggered for an assignment of any address block
equal to or greater than a /29 (i.e., eight IPv4 addresses).
In the case of IPv6, registration occurs for an assignment of any
block equal to or greater than a /64,"
Two facts. The second is undoubtedly a great pity, but to entangle
these logically is a fallacy of inconsistency, specifically a false
equivalence. These two facts are unrelated. It does not help the case
to try to make them interdependent. And it is not needed. All that is
being attempted is to modify V6 SWIP requirements. Do that. And DO NOT
settle on 8 subnets.
"which constitutes one entire IPv6 subnet and is the minimum block size
for an allocation."
I think I'm looking at current text. How did this make it this far? One
ENTIRE IPV6 subnet? There are lots of entire V6 subnets all the way
from /0 to /128. What does that have to do with anything? And, yeah,
the SWIP boundary being the so called "minimum" allocation seems
broken, but that is its own thing.
"There is no technical or policy rationale for the disparity, which
could serve as a deterrent to more rapid IPv6 adoption."
Possibly true, but irrelevant. There is no technical or policy
rationale for them being alike either, nor is there any reason to
suppose that if they were, folks would adopt V6 faster. SWIPing /64 is
definitely wrong for V6. Concentrate on that. We can make policy for V6
without needing to refer to V4.
"The purpose of this proposal is to eliminate the disparity and
corresponding adverse consequences."
With respect, it is not. The disparity does not qualify as a logical
motive. The brokenness of SWIPing /64s does not require injustice and
if /64 SWIPing is a deterrent to V6 adoption, that is its own good and
sufficient reason. If you had to refer to an analogy, you could say,
"SWIPing /64s is analogous to SWIPing /32s and that seems dumb".
So all you need is:
Problem Statement: SWIPing IPV6 /64s is the problem. The purpose of
this proposal is to pick a different number.
Policy statement:
1) Alter section 6.5.5.1 "Reassignment information" of the NRPM
to strike "/64 or more addresses" and change to "/47 or more addresses,
or subdelegation of any size that will be individually announced," and
2) Alter section 6.5.5.3.1. "Residential Customer Privacy" of
the NRPM by deleting the phrase "holding /64 and larger blocks"
BUT. These observations do not appear to have any effect one way or the
other on the policy text. To me, picking a different number does not
have anything to do with disparity, but so what? Changing the IPV6 SWIP
threshold is not unfair and partial if someone makes unfounded
assertions regarding linkages between v4 and V6. And it is not
technically unsound to make fallacious observations if they are kind of
orthogonal to the meat of the matter.
So, still support. I'd rather see it simpler, but I guess I can
tolerate a little hand waving.
Writing solely on my own behalf,
John Springer
On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 9:15 PM, Scott Leibrand
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Jul 21, 2017, at 8:31 PM, John Springer <[email protected]> wrote:
I support this Draft Policy as re-written.
I shared the author's distaste for the requirement that IPV6 /64s be
SWIP'd, but was not reassured when the discussion veered to consider
prefixes between /48 and /64. AFAIK, ISPs have long been encouraged
to apply for their allocations based on the idea of assigning a /48
to each 'customer' to provide room for unknown technologies, among
other things. I did not wish to endanger that premise, but current
language appears to moot that concern.
To be explicit, to me, "/47 or more addresses, or sub-delegation of
any size that will be individually announced," refers to /47s, /46s,
/45s ... and not /48s, /49s, /50s, etc.
That's not what it says. It says /48s (or longer) should be
individually SWIPped if they're going to be announced. Otherwise
there's no reason for the extra clause.
Blocks in the GRT need to be SWIPped to the announcing party if that's
a different organization from the holder of the larger block.
-Scott
On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 9:44 AM, Leif Sawyer <[email protected]>
wrote: Happy Friday, everybody.
As promised, here is the latest rewrite of the draft policy below,
and it will soon be updated at:
https://www.arin.net/policy/proposals/2017_5.html
There are two changes noted in the policy statement: the first of
which reflects what seems to be the current
consensus of the PPML regarding netblock sizing; the second is to
strike language that may be read as either restrictive
or non-operational.
----
Problem Statement:
Current ARIN policy has different WHOIS directory
registration requirements for IPv4 vs IPv6 address assignments.
IPv4 registration is triggered for an assignment of any
address block equal to or greater than a /29 (i.e., eight IPv4
addresses).
In the case of IPv6, registration occurs for an assignment of
any block equal to or greater than a /64, which constitutes one
entire IPv6 subnet and is the minimum block size for an allocation.
Accordingly, there is a significant disparity between IPv4
and IPv6 WHOIS registration thresholds in the case of assignments,
resulting in more work in the case of IPv6 than is the case for
IPv4.
There is no technical or policy rationale for the disparity,
which could serve as a deterrent to more rapid IPv6 adoption.
The purpose of this proposal is to eliminate the disparity
and corresponding adverse consequences.
Policy statement:
1) Alter section 6.5.5.1 "Reassignment information" of the
NRPM to strike "/64 or more addresses" and change to "/47 or more
addresses, or sub-delegation of any size that will be individually
announced,"
and
2) Alter section 6.5.5.3.1. "Residential Customer Privacy" of
the NRPM by deleting the phrase "holding /64 and larger blocks"
Comments:
a. Timetable for implementation:
Policy should be adopted as soon as possible.
b. Anything else:
Author Comments:
IPv6 should not be more burdensome than the equivalent IPv4
network size.
Currently, assignments of /29 or more of IPv4 space (8
addresses) require registration
The greatest majority of ISP customers who have assignments
of IPv4 space are of a single IPv4 address which do not trigger any
ARIN registration requirement when using IPv4.
This is NOT true when these same exact customers use IPv6,
as assignments of /64 or more of IPv6 space require registration.
Beginning with RFC 3177, it has been standard practice to
assign a minimum assignment of /64 to every customer end user site,
and less is never used.
This means that ALL IPv6 assignments, including those
customers that only use a single IPv4 address must be registered
with ARIN if they are given the minimum assignment of /64 of IPv6
space.
This additional effort may prevent ISP's from giving IPv6
addresses because of the additional expense of registering those
addresses with ARIN, which is not required for IPv4.
The administrative burden of 100% customer registration of
IPv6 customers is unreasonable, when such is not required for those
customers receiving only IPv4 connections.
---
Leif Sawyer
Advisory Council
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