Re: "I threw a /24 back in The Swamp 20+ years ago, because it was right."
Maybe a long-term carpark would have been more useful in hindsight. I do not support this draft policy. RD On Tue, Oct 1, 2019, 16:15 <[email protected]> wrote: > Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP Re-Assignment to > Non-Connected Networks (Ralph Sims) > 2. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP Re-Assignment to > Non-Connected Networks (David Farmer) > 3. Re: Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP Re-Assignment to > Non-Connected Networks (Mike Burns) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 19:09:04 +0000 > From: Ralph Sims <[email protected]> > To: Fernando Frediani <[email protected]>, "[email protected]" > <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP > Re-Assignment to Non-Connected Networks > Message-ID: > < > mwhpr0401mb3691429fcd4c09706a7daef8a8...@mwhpr0401mb3691.namprd04.prod.outlook.com > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Due to our not knowing that ARIN recently changed its policy on allocating > additional address space, we are unable to get a subnet to handle our > growth (missed the cut off by 10 days). We recently acquired a company > that gets its space from another provider, but we need additional space to > service its customers as well as for our own growth. We have tried to be > good ?citizens? in the past by not requesting more than we could justify at > the time, but now it appears we have shot ourselves in the foot. I threw a > /24 back in The Swamp 20+ years ago, because it was right. I don?t feel > badly about that, however. Now we are faced with considering using a > broker to acquire the additional space as ARIN cannot meet our needs. IPv6 > is good, but we are dealing with organizations that a) don?t have the > expertise to manage it, or b) aren?t in the position to acquire new > hardware and c) other considerations. I?m not speaking of small outfits, > but large organizations entrenched in the > v4 world?"years of tradition unhampered by progress?. I don?t have a > lot of hair to lose and going the ?educate the customer? route is getting > old. ?We can?t do v6 so we?ll look elsewhere for a provider that can give > us the v4 space we need.? > > I think the current discussion is circular and may not lead towards a > consensus. > > > > <snip> > **unused space** - that's the term to look at. > While there are plenty of organizations in the waiting list patiently > waiting to get addresses they are able to justify there are others with > unused space just willing to speculate them and rent totally bypassing the > waiting list. > Perhaps the community at some point may reach consensus on a specific > policy to revoke these unused space from these organizations and put them > back into the waiting list. It would certainly cost much less than having > to pay for leases. No courts in the world where a contract is respected > would object to such a policy. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20191001/1cf20cdc/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 14:33:17 -0500 > From: David Farmer <[email protected]> > To: Fernando Frediani <[email protected]> > Cc: ARIN-PPML List <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP > Re-Assignment to Non-Connected Networks > Message-ID: > < > can-dau3t1x33na0ovq+vx9xwsmxtjvwrtbqeix-bnxlkuwt...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > On Tue, Oct 1, 2019 at 1:47 PM Fernando Frediani <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > **unused space** - that's the term to look at. > > While there are plenty of organizations in the waiting list patiently > > waiting to get addresses they are able to justify there are others with > > unused space just willing to speculate them and rent totally bypassing > the > > waiting list. > > Perhaps the community at some point may reach consensus on a specific > > policy to revoke these unused space from these organizations and put them > > back into the waiting list. It would certainly cost much less than having > > to pay for leases. No courts in the world where a contract is respected > > would object to such a policy. > > > > Address reclamation is non-starter it is never going to happen, get over > it. We went with a market so we didn't have to have the fight of > reclamation, you may not like the market, but it is a far better choice > than reclamation. > > A market motivates and maybe even rewards people to increase the use of > unused or under-used address space. Reclamation motivates people to fight > the increased use of address space by fighting the reclamation. Hostile or > forced reclamation of address space will cost far more than a market ever > will. And would likely be much more unfair than the market. > > Why is reclamation unfair, because those with the financial resources to > fight it, will fight it, and those without financial resources won't. It's > unfair because it won't be about use of address space it will be about who > has the financial resources to fight reclamation. > > Furthermore, the huge effort reclamation would take gets us no closer to > IPv6, in fact if anything it moves us away from IPv6. At least with the > market as the cost of IPv4 goes up the motivation to do IPv6 does also. > > Please stop arguing for reclamation, it is not a viable alternative. > > Thanks. > -- > =============================================== > David Farmer Email:[email protected] > Networking & Telecommunication Services > Office of Information Technology > University of Minnesota > 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 > Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 > =============================================== > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20191001/59deec57/attachment-0001.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2019 16:14:45 -0400 > From: "Mike Burns" <[email protected]> > To: "'Ralph Sims'" <[email protected]>, "'Fernando Frediani'" > <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP > Re-Assignment to Non-Connected Networks > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Ralph, > > > > I threw a /21 back in the swamp myself and I think you are right about > this discussion being circular. ? > > Yes, I voluntarily returned them. Wonder if that makes my arguments any > better? > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > > > From: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> On Behalf Of Ralph Sims > Sent: Tuesday, October 01, 2019 3:09 PM > To: Fernando Frediani <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2019-18: LIR/ISP Re-Assignment > to Non-Connected Networks > > > > Due to our not knowing that ARIN recently changed its policy on allocating > additional address space, we are unable to get a subnet to handle our > growth (missed the cut off by 10 days). We recently acquired a company > that gets its space from another provider, but we need additional space to > service its customers as well as for our own growth. We have tried to be > good ?citizens? in the past by not requesting more than we could justify at > the time, but now it appears we have shot ourselves in the foot. I threw a > /24 back in The Swamp 20+ years ago, because it was right. I don?t feel > badly about that, however. Now we are faced with considering using a > broker to acquire the additional space as ARIN cannot meet our needs. IPv6 > is good, but we are dealing with organizations that a) don?t have the > expertise to manage it, or b) aren?t in the position to acquire new > hardware and c) other considerations. I?m not speaking of small outfits, > but large organizations entrenched in the > v4 world?"years of tradition unhampered by progress?. I don?t have a > lot of hair to lose and going the ?educate the customer? route is getting > old. ?We can?t do v6 so we?ll look elsewhere for a provider that can give > us the v4 space we need.? > > > > I think the current discussion is circular and may not lead towards a > consensus. > > > > > > <snip> > > **unused space** - that's the term to look at. > While there are plenty of organizations in the waiting list patiently > waiting to get addresses they are able to justify there are others with > unused space just willing to speculate them and rent totally bypassing the > waiting list. > Perhaps the community at some point may reach consensus on a specific > policy to revoke these unused space from these organizations and put them > back into the waiting list. It would certainly cost much less than having > to pay for leases. No courts in the world where a contract is respected > would object to such a policy. > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20191001/0975ddc3/attachment.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > > > ------------------------------ > > End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 172, Issue 9 > ***************************************** >
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