While someone can hire a professional registered agent in the US, that is
not the only problem. This kind of thing happens between states in the US
all the time. Most states require anyone doing business in their state to
have a place in their state to serve process on someone. Thus, the quite
active professional registered agent company market.
As has been pointed out, if Court is required it takes place in Virginia.
However when it becomes time to actually force compliance with that
Virginia judgment, one has to establish that judgment in the non-Virginia
place which if this passes might be halfway around the world. What the
assessment is pointing out is that process could be quite messy if they
are no longer based in the ARIN region. Courts in other parts of the world
do not care for the USA, and in fact there is a bias against the US. That
was the risk identified.
I am mixed on this. While most that keep their numbers under this
proposed draft will never need to be sued to compliance, that still
remains a risk. Maybe some kind of an additional signed agreement with
these parties that if the out of area ARIN party fails to act on ARIN
action that the resources are automatically revoked without court order
could be the stick to still allow this proposal to happen. Actually it
seems to me like such corner case that will be rarely used such that is it
worth the effort to do it? Does the proposer advancing this because of
specific parties who need it?
Albert Erdmann
Network Administrator
Paradise On Line Inc.
On Wed, 16 Oct 2019, William Herrin wrote:
On Wed, Oct 16, 2019 at 4:16 PM Amy Potter <[email protected]> wrote:
We received a staff and legal assessment for ARIN 2019-13 ARIN Membership
Legal Jurisdiction requirement a bit ago that presented some serious concerns
about adopting this policy. Based on these concerns I plan to move to
abandon this policy. Just wanted to give the community an opportunity to voice
their
opinions one last time.
Hi Amy,
It seems to me that the policy proposal has not been developed to the point
that it's the best policy it can be. I don't (currently) think it's a good idea
but unless
everybody else feels the same way (don't think it's a good idea) I'd like to
see the idea fully developed before making a firm choice to support or oppose
it.
The policy proposal text is included at the end as a refresher.
Here were the legal assessment comments:
• There are significant material legal concerns regarding adoption of this
policy.
To date, entities receiving addresses from ARIN have an ARIN region
incorporation. This is important, as it has permitted ARIN to send
correspondence or make
legal service in its region to the entities it is servicing. The proposed
policy would reverse 21 years of practice and experience and require ARIN
accept the
necessity to potentially serve legal papers via a foreign legal forum and
litigate in non-region countries. Such foreign legal forums may be located in
some
of the countries not committed to the rule of law which is prevalent in our
region, and before foreign courts or tribunals which are hostile to foreign
business
interest and/or where the legal system may be expensive and unresponsive. In
addition, the capability for ARIN to know its customer will be substantially
reduced for out of region companies with no in-region domiciled entity.
Considering the legal risks that would result from the proposed policy, counsel
has
serious concerns and would advise against adoption unless it is shown that ARIN
has clear and pressing need for adoption to fulfill its mission.
This analysis isn't making much sense to me. Perhaps counsel could clarify?
As I recall, the contract (RSA) demands that the registrant accept legal
jurisdiction in Virginia. Does counsel suggest that the contract would change
based on this
policy's adoption or that out-region registrants would be released from the
requirement to sign it? If the contract remains unaltered, how would ARIN
become subject
to foreign legal forums?
This could be perfected with a -business requirement- (not number policy) that
ARIN registrants accept legal service within the ARIN region. That's slightly
more than
renting a post office box, but not much. And hiring someone to receive legal
service on your organization's behalf is quite commonplace, at least in the
United
States. Certainly a reasonable ask as a part of the proposed policy.
Some hyperbole going on in the "reverse 21 years" thing since for much of that
21 years ARIN's practice included managing addresses for Africa and the rest of the
Americas. Somehow it survived...
Finally, as noted in a prior email, counsel is mistaken: many entities holding ARIN
resources are not "incorporated" (to the legal meaning of the word) anywhere,
let
alone in the ARIN region. I'm trying not to be pedantic here but some words
have precise legal meanings.
Regards,
Bill Herrin
--
William Herrin
[email protected]
https://bill.herrin.us/
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