Hello

I see a potential problem where changes in corporate structure occur when 
shifting day to day operations to subsidiaries or sister corporations, leaving 
the block assignment with the original holder. 

Bruce C

> On Sep 9, 2022, at 9:44 AM, Fernando Frediani <[email protected]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello
> 
> There is no such error in the proposal.
> This has been checked as being the interpretation staff gives to the current 
> policy in most RIRs. APNIC is just an example that have confirmed it publicly 
> a couples of days ago. 
> You may not find all the very specific words you may wish for in the text, 
> but it is not much difficult for them to have such interpretation given the 
> resources must follow a proper justification of what they will be used for 
> and that can never be that you will use them for leasing (rent of lend). ARIN 
> also already confirmed in this very same list they don't accept it as a 
> justification.
> 
> There is no much around the term leasing. If an organization who don't 
> provide any connectivity services to another simply rent or lend IP space, 
> with or without a cost associated that is something that must not be since 
> they no longer have a justification to keep that IP space and instead should 
> either transfer it to those who really justify or return to ARIN.
> 
> Fernando
> 
>> On 24/08/2022 11:04, Mike Burns wrote:
>> Opposed, I think the proposal contains errors that should be fixed before 
>> the discussion proceeds.
>>  
>> For example this statement :
>> “In other RIRs, the leasing of addresses is not authorized either and since 
>> it is not explicit in their policy manuals either, this proposal will be 
>> presented as well.”
>>  
>> If it is not in their policy manuals, how can the proposers state leasing is 
>> not authorized?
>> Where do the proposers think authority comes from, if not from policy and 
>> contract?
>> Are they just assuming that all things are prohibited unless they are 
>> explicitly allowed?
>> That would be an interesting way to read the policy manual, if that is the 
>> belief, we should discuss that.
>>  
>> Beyond that there is the very next sentence:
>> ” Nothing is currently mentioned in RIPE about this and it is not acceptable 
>> as a justification of the need. “ 
>>  
>> Once again the bias is towards prohibition despite language about leasing 
>> being absent from RIPE policy. More to the point, and something that can’t 
>> be drummed-home clearly enough to this community, RIPE has no needs test at 
>> all for transfers and hasn’t for years.  And yet RIPE still exists and 
>> operates as an RIR.  Even further to the point, in the one occasion that 
>> RIPE performs a needs-test, which is on inter-regional transfers from ARIN, 
>> leased-out addresses are in fact acceptable as justification. That’s because 
>> of two logical things. First, RIPE understands that the inherent value of 
>> the addresses drives them towards efficient use. Second, RIPE understands 
>> that they are charged with getting addresses into use, not getting them into 
>> use on particular networks.
>>  
>> So the first two sentences in the “situation at other RIRs” are 
>> problematic/false.
>> Might I suggest fixing those before we move forward, and also can you please 
>> define the word leasing?
>>  
>> This seems poorly though-out to me, and I haven’t started on the meat of the 
>> proposal yet nor how it would be effectively policed and prohibited.
>>  
>> Regards,
>> Mike
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> On Behalf Of ARIN
>> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2022 12:29 PM
>> To: PPML <[email protected]>
>> Subject: [arin-ppml] Draft Policy ARIN-2022-9: Leasing Not Intended
>>  
>> On 18 August 2022, the ARIN Advisory Council (AC) accepted "ARIN-prop-308: 
>> Leasing Not Intended" as a Draft Policy.
>>  
>> Draft Policy ARIN-2022-9 is below and can be found at:
>>  
>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/2022_9/
>>  
>> You are encouraged to discuss all Draft Policies on PPML. The AC will 
>> evaluate the discussion to assess the conformance of this draft policy with 
>> ARIN's Principles of Internet number resource policy as stated in the Policy 
>> Development Process (PDP). Specifically, these principles are:
>>  
>> * Enabling Fair and Impartial Number Resource Administration
>> * Technically Sound
>> * Supported by the Community
>>  
>> The PDP can be found at:
>>  
>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/pdp/
>>  
>> Draft Policies and Proposals under discussion can be found at: 
>> https://www.arin.net/participate/policy/drafts/
>>  
>> Regards,
>>  
>> Sean Hopkins
>> Senior Policy Analyst
>> American Registry for Internet Numbers (ARIN)
>>  
>>  
>> Draft Policy ARIN-2022-9: Leasing Not Intended
>>  
>> Problem Statement:
>>  
>> “IPv6 Policy (section 6.4.1.) explicitly mention that address space is not a 
>> property. This is also stated in the RSA (section 7.) for all the Internet 
>> Number Resources.
>>  
>> However, with the spirit of the IPv4 allocation policies being the same, 
>> there is not an equivalent text for IPv4, neither for ASNs.
>>  
>> Further to that, policies for IPv4 and IPv6 allocations, clearly state that 
>> allocations are based on justified need and not solely on a predicted 
>> customer base. Similar text can be found in the section related to Transfers 
>> (8.1).
>>  
>> Consequently, resources not only aren’t a property, but also, aren’t 
>> allocated for leasing purposes, only for justified need of the resource 
>> holder and its directly connected customers.
>>  
>> Therefore, and so that there are no doubts about it, it should be made 
>> explicit in the NRPM that the Internet Resources should not be leased “per 
>> se”, but only as part of a direct connectivity service. At the same time, 
>> section 6.4.1. should be moved to the top of the NRPM (possibly to section 
>> 1. “Principles and Goals of the American Registry for Internet Numbers 
>> (ARIN)”.”
>>  
>> Policy statement:
>>  
>> Actual Text (to be replaced by New Text):
>>  
>> 6.4.1. Address Space Not to be Considered Property
>>  
>> It is contrary to the goals of this document and is not in the interests of 
>> the Internet community as a whole for address space to be considered 
>> freehold property.
>>  
>> The policies in this document are based upon the understanding that 
>> globally-unique IPv6 unicast address space is allocated/assigned for use 
>> rather than owned.
>>  
>> New Text
>>  
>> 1.5. Internet Number Resources Not to be Considered Property
>>  
>> It is contrary to the goals of this document and is not in the interests of 
>> the Internet community as a whole for address space to be considered 
>> freehold property.
>>  
>> The policies in this document are based upon the understanding that Internet 
>> Number Resources are allocated/assigned for use rather than owned.
>>  
>> ARIN allocate and assign Internet resources in a delegation scheme, with an 
>> annual validity, renewable as long as the requirements specified by the 
>> policies in force at the time of renewal are met, and especially the 
>> justification of the need.
>>  
>> Therefore, the resources can’t be considered property.
>>  
>> The justification of the need, generically in the case of addresses, implies 
>> their need to directly connect customers. Therefore, the leasing of 
>> addresses is not considered acceptable, nor does it justify the need, if 
>> they are not part of a set of services based, at least, on direct 
>> connectivity.
>>  
>> Even in cases of networks not connected to the Internet, the leasing of 
>> addresses is not admissible, since said sites can request direct assignments 
>> from ARIN and even in the case of IPv4, use private addresses or arrange 
>> transfers.
>>  
>> Timetable for implementation: Immediate
>>  
>> Situation in other Regions:
>>  
>> In other RIRs, the leasing of addresses is not authorized either and since 
>> it is not explicit in their policy manuals either, this proposal will be 
>> presented as well.
>>  
>> Nothing is currently mentioned in RIPE about this and it is not acceptable 
>> as a justification of the need. In AFRINIC, APNIC and LACNIC, the staff has 
>> confirmed that address leasing is not considered as valid for the 
>> justification.
>>  
>> 
>> 
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