Hi Bill,
I agree with you that having a candidate disclose a potential COI is a major
point, the reality is in a multi-stakeholder community led organization such as
ARIN, wouldn't most qualified candidates have a conflict of interest when it
comes to policy? I think there is a fair handed approach to the multiple
mindset approach that is the AC as well as policy that is actively driven by
community participation. If you see policy that seems skewed, then actively
deny it in the PPML and at the general meeting. This is a benefit of the open
Policy Development Process that ARIN has adopted recently. Unless there is
clear "industry takeover" of multiple candidates in the same space, I don't
really see the conflict of interest but rather a separate state of opinion.
I think it is great you are asking for candidates to participate in a public
forum of opinion and get to hear the words directly from the candidates
themselves. I am sure other people have had similar concerns and the PPML is a
great way to raise them.
Thanks
Dustin Moses
Network Engineer III
o: 208-762-8065 d: (208) 758-0489
w: intermaxnetworks.com
a: 7400 N Mineral Drive Suite 300, Coeur d'Alene, ID
83815
-----Original Message-----
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Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2023 8:43 AM
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Subject: ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 220, Issue 9
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Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Re: AC candidates (Mike Burns)
2. Re: AC candidates (Chris Woodfield)
3. Re: AC candidates (Andrew Dul)
4. Re: AC candidates (Adam Thompson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 11:12:20 -0400
From: Mike Burns <m...@iptrading.com>
To: <b...@herrin.us>
Cc: <fhfredi...@gmail.com>, <arin-ppml@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] AC candidates
Message-ID:
<18b6c8b26f1.de7c91b8305428.6034375938475563...@iptrading.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Hi Bill,
Fair enough, most people interested in this are likely to have some conflicts
and it's important to consider those.
If we unilaterally excluded all candidates with conflicts though, candidate
pickings would be even slimmer.
Regards,
Mike
---- On Thu,26 Oct 2023 17:22:13 -0400 b...@herrin.us wrote ----On Thu, Oct
26, 2023 at 6:58?AM Mike Burns <m...@iptrading.com> wrote:
> And I agree with Fernando that affiliations or connections to IP
> brokers would be a point in their favor considering they are the
> people distributing IPv4 addresses these days.
Hi Mike,
Before considering someone affiliated with an address broker for an ARIN
position, I'd want them to demonstrate that they recognize the conflict of
interest that's likely to pose and have a well conceived plan for addressing it.
Conflict of interest corrupts even the best intentioned. I once quit a job I
liked because despite his good intentions my boss unsuccessfully managed his
conflict of interest. It placed me in a position where I couldn't properly
oversee the prime vendor. So I'm sensitive to conflicts of interest.
Regards,
Bill Herrin
--
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:17:55 -0700
From: Chris Woodfield <ch...@semihuman.com>
To: "arin-p...@lists.arin.net" <arin-ppml@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] AC candidates
Message-ID: <049e6d23-8455-4411-a7ef-82e58cc3a...@semihuman.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
The concern, as I see it, is not whether or not a candidate has potential
conflicts of interest - you are correct that it would be extremely difficult to
find candidates that do not. The question for me is, can a given candidate be
trusted to properly separate their personal business interests from the
interests of the community, and recuse themselves a given deliberation when
there?s no other way to remove the appearance of such a conflict of interest?
-C
> On Oct 26, 2023, at 08:12, Mike Burns <m...@iptrading.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Fair enough, most people interested in this are likely to have some conflicts
> and it's important to consider those.
>
> If we unilaterally excluded all candidates with conflicts though, candidate
> pickings would be even slimmer.
>
> Regards,
> Mike
>
>
>
> ---- On Thu,26 Oct 2023 17:22:13 -0400 b...@herrin.us wrote ----
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 6:58?AM Mike Burns <m...@iptrading.com
> <mailto:m...@iptrading.com>> wrote:
> > And I agree with Fernando that affiliations or connections to IP
> > brokers would be a point in their favor considering they are the
> > people distributing IPv4 addresses these days.
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Before considering someone affiliated with an address broker for an
> ARIN position, I'd want them to demonstrate that they recognize the
> conflict of interest that's likely to pose and have a well conceived
> plan for addressing it.
>
> Conflict of interest corrupts even the best intentioned. I once quit a
> job I liked because despite his good intentions my boss unsuccessfully
> managed his conflict of interest. It placed me in a position where I
> couldn't properly oversee the prime vendor. So I'm sensitive to
> conflicts of interest.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
>
> --
> William Herrin
> b...@herrin.us <mailto:b...@herrin.us> https://bill.herrin.us/
>
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
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> Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 08:27:08 -0700
From: Andrew Dul <andrew....@quark.net>
To: arin-ppml@arin.net
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] AC candidates
Message-ID: <187dfd17-ce54-4034-b590-69327c71f...@quark.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed
On 10/26/2023 12:42 AM, William Herrin wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> As I think about how to vote for the AC candidates, I figured I'd
> check the list archives to see how each one went about arguing for and
> against proposals over the years. Seems like a reasonable way to
> evaluate a candidate judged "well qualified," right?
>
> Imagine my surprise. Of the 14 candidates, only 5 have posted here as
> a member of the general public. Ever. Even a couple of the current AC
> members have only posted here in their official capacity on the AC.
>
> I don't know what to say.I just don't know what to say.
>
Bill,
I have also used this metric in the past when considering AC candidates.? We
will have a large turnover in AC seats this year so perhaps this metric is a
bit skewed this year??? Or maybe it is a trend?
I think one question to ask would be is this an artifact of the AC candidates
and current AC members and PPML or PPML as a whole? I certainly would like to
see more collaboration on the PPML by AC members but we just don't see that.?
There has been discussion on and off about how the AC contributes to the public
discussion with an awareness of their position could create a bias in the
discussion.? This has been specifically discussed regarding comments at the
microphone during the public policy meeting, but the sentiment I think also
carries over a little bit onto the list.
While the PPML is open to any participant we see very few active collaborators
on this list.? My perception as someone who has been on this list for a long
time is that the number of active collaborators has decreased over time.? One
could certainly "do the research" to confirm or deny that perception.? There
could be many reasons for that, but are those reasons also applicable to AC
members and candidates?
Hope this helps,
Andrew? (AC member but not speaking for the AC)
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2023 15:42:41 +0000
From: Adam Thompson <athomp...@merlin.mb.ca>
To: William Herrin <b...@herrin.us>, Mike Burns <m...@iptrading.com>
Cc: "arin-ppml@arin.net" <arin-ppml@arin.net>
Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] AC candidates
Message-ID:
<yqbpr0101mb892556a7c22ce8a46a8d206e9b...@yqbpr0101mb8925.canprd01.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I can't believe I'm taking this position now, but I guess it's 2023 so here we
are...
I don't agree that an IP broker *inherently* has a problematic conflict of
interest with ARIN, any more than every ARIN member on the AC has some degree
of inherent conflict of interest. Every AC member is an ARIN member that
obtains resources from ARIN, and thus could be tempted to act solely in their
own interests.
IP brokers have similar conflicts of interest quantitatively, not necessarily
any larger than an LRSA signatory with, say, a /12's worth of resources or more
- they just retire and acquire several [new] conflicts of interest every day,
as opposed to having the exact same conflict of interest day after day. Yes,
of course there's a qualitative difference, but I don't think a comprehensive
ontology for conflicts of interest exists yet, never mind a hierarchy.
While I really wish IP brokers didn't [need to] exist as an industry, they do,
and they appear to be the primary means of IP address distribution today, for
better or for worse - and therefore keeping them out in the cold doesn't serve
the interests of ARIN or the ARIN membership or the larger internet community.
I'd rather see them participating in ARIN governance instead of being what
threatens to be an RIR-bypass mechanism. "If you can't beat them, join them"
works in both directions.
Do they have to carefully manage their COIs? Yes, in exactly the was same
every other person on the AC, the board, committees, etc. must. I can't see
any reason they would be intrinsically less able to do so, and I feel that
insinuation otherwise starts edging towards ad-hominem attacks.
As to why they need to exist... well, we all collectively did that to ourselves
with the!@#$%^&* pathologically painful transition path to IPv6. (Speaking as
someone running a fully v6-enabled ISP/MSP... I have exactly one client who
cares. Sigh.)
Speaking my own opinions, not necessarily my employer's, -Adam
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ARIN-PPML <arin-ppml-boun...@arin.net> On Behalf Of William
> Herrin
> Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2023 9:22 AM
> To: Mike Burns <m...@iptrading.com>
> Cc: arin-ppml@arin.net
> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] AC candidates
>
> On Thu, Oct 26, 2023 at 6:58?AM Mike Burns <m...@iptrading.com> wrote:
> > And I agree with Fernando that affiliations or connections to IP
> > brokers would be a point in their favor considering they are the
> > people distributing IPv4 addresses these days.
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> Before considering someone affiliated with an address broker for an
> ARIN position, I'd want them to demonstrate that they recognize the
> conflict of interest that's likely to pose and have a well conceived
> plan for addressing it.
>
> Conflict of interest corrupts even the best intentioned. I once quit a
> job I liked because despite his good intentions my boss unsuccessfully
> managed his conflict of interest. It placed me in a position where I
> couldn't properly oversee the prime vendor. So I'm sensitive to
> conflicts of interest.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
>
> --
> William Herrin
> b...@herrin.us
> https://bill.herrin.us/
> _______________________________________________
> ARIN-PPML
> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN
> Public Policy Mailing List (ARIN-PPML@arin.net).
> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at:
> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml
> Please contact i...@arin.net if you experience any issues.
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