Thus spake Owen DeLong via ARIN-PPML ([email protected]) on Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 02:36:02AM -0700: > This is unfinished cleanup… The correct solution (IMNSHO) is to eliminate the > term ISP from the NRPM and replace all occurrences with LIR. > > There’s really no place in the NRPM where ISP (or equivalent) occurs that > would not be better served for policy purposes by being replaced with LIR.
I strongly agree with these points, and also point out that LIR also better aligns with usage in IETF and IANA. Dale > > On Jun 19, 2024, at 20:51, Douglas Camin <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > Bill – > > > > I made a mistake in my earlier email – LIRs and ISPs *are* generally > > interchangeable terms. I was confusing it with End Users. Apologies. > > Notably, ARIN staff wrote a helpful blog post earlier last year pointing > > out that LIR and ISP is used interchangeably under the NRPM. > > > > I’ll rephrase my earlier response: > > > > The policy proposal as I see it is looking to add clarity to the existing > > text. Section 6.5 as a whole uses the terms ISP and LIR at different > > points. 6.5.1a appears to be there to ensure a reader knows they have the > > same meaning but used the broader term “document” rather than “section” to > > indicate the applicability. As a subsection of Section 6.5, a statement > > that it applies to the “Section” should reasonably indicate the rest of the > > section it is included in, and no other sections of the document. > > > > If your feedback is – retire 6.5.1a, move definitions or clarifications to > > other sections, that is fine as well. We’re here to collect your input, and > > it is appreciated! > > > > Regards – > > > > > > Doug > > > > -- > > Douglas J. Camin > > Member, ARIN Advisory Council > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > > > From: William Herrin <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > Date: Wednesday, June 19, 2024 at 9:37 PM > > To: Douglas Camin <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > Cc: PPML <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Feedback Request: Policy ARIN-2024-6: 6.5.1a > > Definition Update > > > > On Wed, Jun 19, 2024 at 5:23 PM Douglas Camin <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > > > To think about it holistically – for all sections of NRPM aside from 6.5, > > > LIRs and ISPs have distinct differences. Inside of Section 6.5, anywhere > > > it references an LIR, that policy also applies to an ISP. This policy > > > changes the word “Document” to “Section” to ensure there is no confusion > > > about that. > > > > Hi Doug, > > > > Well I sure don't like that plan. > > > > IMO, the proposed change just makes it more confusing. "Section" > > means... which section? Why should the reader understand it to mean > > section 6.5? Why not section 6? > > > > But that's not the biggest issue. Folks should be able to skip from > > section to section and understand the terms "LIR" and "ISP" to mean > > the same thing there that they do everywhere else. You're telling me > > that 6.5.1.a intends to morph the terms to a different meaning for > > section 6.5. That's bad. Really bad. Don't do that. > > > > Now that you call my attention to it, I think I'd like to see section > > 6.5.1 retired, any relevant terminology moved to section 2 where it > > belongs, and any text whose use of words is inharmonious with the rest > > of the document revised. And not necessarily in section 6.5 - we > > probably should be considering LIRs and ISPs to be the same thing > > elsewhere too. > > > > I'm curious: where in the NRPM is LIR and ISP not, for the purposes of > > ARIN policy, the same thing? > > > > Regards, > > Bill Herrin > > > > > > p.s. 6.5.2.b is also poorly written. If I didn't already know what the > > nibble boundary is, it'd leave me scratching my head. Need simpler > > words along with enough context for a reader to gain a basic > > understanding of why it matters. > > > > "A nibble is half a byte: 4 bits. A nibble boundary in a netmask is > > where the number of bits in the mask is evenly divisible by 4. > > > > Nibble-based address delegation boundaries serve IPv6 in two ways: > > First, each written digit of an IPv6 address is exactly 4 bits. > > Second, the ip6.arpa reverse-DNS domain is engineered for > > nibble-boundary delegation." > > > > > > -- > > William Herrin > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fbill.herrin.us%2F&data=05%7C02%7C%7C352a22489a6d42c7f99808dc90c998b5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638544442722994139%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=R%2FHUv7OIQ1iBweMlBe4NjLulKgTEzDkAX0a7tvu%2FelI%3D&reserved=0 > > <https://bill.herrin.us/>_______________________________________________ > > ARIN-PPML > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>). > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > > Please contact [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> if you experience any > > issues. > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. _______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). 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