I believe there has been ample evidence from the community and first hand evidence introduced to justify this being made into a policy proposal.
I’ve sent an official policy proposal to [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> ; hopefully this can be shepherded in with full ARIN support by ARIN 56, with some sort of preliminary discussion even possible at ARIN 55. Preston Louis Ursini > On Apr 21, 2025, at 4:28 PM, [email protected] wrote: > > Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Mohibul Mahmud) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2025 17:28:36 -0400 > From: Mohibul Mahmud <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals > Message-ID: > <cabzhj9+5zkxhnj0bducemq6s+uvqwhahx_qjl394jo_3m3q...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hello, > > Since RIPE and APNIC have variations in how individuals can receive > resources, would it make sense for ARIN to document and review lessons from > those models in an official staff assessment or community report? > > This might help the community better evaluate the trade-offs before > considering any changes to our own policies. > > -Mohibul > > > > On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 12:43?PM <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to >> [email protected] >> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >> [email protected] >> >> You can reach the person managing the list at >> [email protected] >> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..." >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals (Owen DeLong) >> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran) >> 3. Re: distributing resources for individuals (David Farmer) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 09:13:23 -0700 >> From: Owen DeLong <[email protected]> >> To: John Curran <[email protected]> >> Cc: Paul E McNary <[email protected]>, [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 >> >> While your statement is technically true, what they do not provide is an >> authoritative proof that an entity does not exist as a legal entity which >> can be verified. In fact, not all states registries will even allow the >> listing of sole proprietorships without a fictitious name and some of those >> states won?t allow fictitious name use of the individual?s legal name. >> >> I doubt you would find any of the following organizations which legally >> exist in California in the SOS registry: >> Delong Consulting >> Owen DeLong and Family >> Purple Politico >> >> This doesn?t prevent two of them from appearing on schedule C forms and it >> hasn?t prevented ARIN from taking money from the third for decades for >> resources being registered to it. >> >> ARIN?s misuse of SOS registries as an authoritative source of proof an >> organization doesn?t exist is what is the crux of the issue here. >> >> When DNS returns NXDOMAIN from an authoritative server, you know that that >> record doesn?t exist. This is not the case with SOS registries. All you can >> get from them is that the organization definitely exists or absent a >> record, that the organization may or may not exist. >> >> Owen >> >> >>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 18:12, John Curran <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> ?Paul - >>> >>> At explained to you on several occasions (including in-person at WISPA), >> ARIN conducts a business entity search within your state?s registry and >> that returns corporations, partnerships, sole proprietorships, DBA names, >> etc. Secretary of State business entity registries provide public-facing, >> authoritative records confirming that an organization exists as a legal >> entity which can be verified for every state in a clear, consistent, and >> neutral manner. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> /John >>> >>> John Curran >>> President and CEO >>> American Registry for Internet Numbers >>> >>> >>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 8:42?PM, Paul E McNary <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> ARIN wouldn't accept my City, County, business licenses or my state >> business IDs from Department of Revenue on a business that I started in >> ,1979. Why? >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-PPML >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 16:41:59 +0000 >> From: John Curran <[email protected]> >> To: Owen DeLong <[email protected]> >> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> On Apr 18, 2025, at 11:42?AM, Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> IMHO the best tact at this point may well be to submit both ACSP and >> policy proposals which provide for ARIN to issue resources to individuals >> as unregistered (by state) sole proprietorships. >> >> While ARIN follows current NRPM by issuing to resources to organizations >> (and encourages individuals to utilize the sole proprietor option or dba >> for compliance), a policy change to provide number resource issuance >> specifically to individuals is certainly something that this community >> could consider. The problem statement would appear to be (as you suggest >> above) something along the lines of: ?Resolve inability of ARIN to >> issuance IPv4/IPv6/ASN number resources directly to individuals." >> >> Doing so via the policy process would make sure that any germane policy >> nuances (e.g. issuance to individuals under ISP vs end-user policy, waiting >> list policy, etc.) get appropraite consideration when applied to >> individual resource holders. >> >> (I do not believe that any ACSP is necessary, as Impact to ARIN's existing >> operational practices and any implications for directly serving individuals >> are the type of issue that can be explored in the staff and legal review. ) >> >> FYI, >> /John >> >> John Curran >> President and CEO >> American Registry for Internet Numbers >> >> >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250418/8f4167f8/attachment-0001.htm >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2025 11:42:20 -0500 >> From: David Farmer <[email protected]> >> To: Owen DeLong <[email protected]> >> Cc: Ryan Hamel <[email protected]>, Preston Ursini >> <[email protected]>, [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals >> Message-ID: >> < >> can-dau1uadbi1ojqscosycbbdh+6xju_rq7kz1nroktpfue...@mail.gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> In my view, Secretary of State (SOS) registration is an easy button for >> ARIN, and when available, that's fine. Nevertheless, I also expect ARIN to >> have processes and procedures in place when the SOS option is not >> available. A sole proprietorship that is not registered with the SOS is >> still a valid business in many states, and ARIN needs processes and >> procedures in place to deal with that situation. >> >> Earlier, I referenced Section 9 and the flexibility in determining that an >> organization is operating in the ARIN; similar flexibility is needed in >> determining whether an individual is operating as a business. I'll also >> note that Section 9 is quite clear: registration in the ARIN region alone >> is not sufficient to determine whether an organization is operating in the >> ARIN region. Similarly, a lack of registration alone should not be >> sufficient to find that an individual is not operating as a business. >> >> As to ARIN policy, it predominantly references organizations. Individuals >> only come up in the context of defining a Residential Customer. With that >> context, ARIN policy strongly assumes LIRs, ISPs, and end-users are >> organizations, not individuals. >> >> Thanks. >> >> On Fri, Apr 18, 2025 at 11:05?AM Owen DeLong <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Not all states will register a sole proprietorship under a person?s legal >>> name, making it difficult for some sole proprietorships to clear ARIN?s >>> current requirements. Worse, individuals and sole proprietors who know >>> which buttons to push on the ARIN staff seem to be able to get ORG-IDs >>> without SOS registration while others seem to get rejected on that basis. >>> >>> I?m not arguing that these ?exceptions? should go away, I?m arguing that >>> they should be more widely available and perhaps it is time to drop the >>> ?organization? pretext altogether. >>> >>> Owen >>> >>> >>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 17:54, David Farmer via ARIN-PPML < >> [email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>> ? >>> Ok, natural persons can be RIPE members in their own right, I guess I was >>> wrong, but you pay ?1,800 for membership. Where as with ARIN you start >> at >>> $250, even with potential state registration fees for a sole >>> proprietorship, you probably still come out well ahead. >>> >>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:43 David Farmer <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Out of curiosity can you point me to the agreement on RIPE?s web site. >>>> >>>> Thanks >>>> >>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 19:38 Ryan Hamel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> David, >>>>> >>>>> I signed an agreement with RIPE NCC, have an account in their portal, >>>>> and had an ASN + IPv6 assignment... >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, >>>>> >>>>> Ryan Hamel >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> *From:* ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> on behalf of David >>>>> Farmer via ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> >>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, April 17, 2025 6:35:37 PM >>>>> *To:* John Curran <[email protected]> >>>>> *Cc:* Preston Ursini <[email protected]>; [email protected] < >>>>> [email protected]> >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals >>>>> >>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take >>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments. >>>>> >>>>> First, my understanding is that individuals don't get resources from >>>>> RIPE either; Member Organizations do. You, as an individual, get >>>>> resources from an LIR that is a RIPE Member, and the LIR gets the >>>>> resources from RIPE, maintains the relationship with RIPE, and assigns >>>>> them to you. As an individual, your relationship is with the LIR, not >> RIPE, >>>>> unless I'm completely misunderstanding RIPE's policies and business >>>>> practices. >>>>> >>>>> A similar arrangement could be facilitated by an LIR (also known as an >>>>> ISP) that is an ARIN Member Organization. That isn't as common a >> practice >>>>> here in the ARIN Region. ARIN has a lower barrier to entry and deals >>>>> directly with end-user organizations, but not end-users as individuals. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 17, 2025 at 6:51?PM John Curran <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Preston - >>>>> >>>>> I don?t think any of the present discussion has been predicated on >> fraud >>>>> concerns. >>>>> >>>>> (Note that ARIN currently has some extensive anti-fraud practices that >>>>> include various forms of government issued ID presentation and >>>>> verification.) >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> /John >>>>> >>>>> John Curran >>>>> President and CEO >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:39?PM, Preston Ursini <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Would I be correct in that there hasn?t been an actually policy >> proposal >>>>> submitted for this? >>>>> >>>>> I believe that whether or not this new policy were to be considered, >>>>> that a copy of a government issued identification document be >> submitted to >>>>> the person signing the Registration Services Agreement whenever an >> OrgID is >>>>> issued. This can help immensely in tracking down fraud which seems to >> be a >>>>> pillar concern. >>>>> >>>>> For simplicity sake, I?d also say in any such policy allowing an >>>>> Individual to obtain numbering assets simply be issued an OrgID just as >>>>> sole proprietors are as to minimize disruption to ARIN operations in >>>>> implementing this policy. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Preston Ursini >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 6:28?PM, John Curran <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Preston - >>>>> >>>>> That?s a reasonable question (?why an individual cannot be accepted as >>>>> they are generally the same legal entity??) >>>>> >>>>> You?re right that a sole proprietorship is legally tied to the >>>>> individual behind it, but that doesn?t make it the same as issuing >>>>> resources to individuals. At the time of ARIN?s formation (and for a >>>>> suibstantial period before), number resources were issued to >> organizations. >>>>> The old netnumber.txt request forms made that clear, asking for ?the >>>>> organization responsible for establishing the network? along with a >> postal >>>>> address. That model is what ARIN inherited when it was formed in 1997, >> and >>>>> it?s what we continue to operate under. >>>>> >>>>> While it?s true in theory that ARIN could adopt a model where it >>>>> directly serves individuals, this would represent a significant >> departure >>>>> from the registry model we inherited and have operated under for >> decades. >>>>> Even though individuals and organizations can both be ?legal entities,? >>>>> that does not mean they are treated identically under law. For example, >>>>> companies that predominantly focus on serving businesses (often >> referred to >>>>> as B2B) are often subject to different laws, regulations, and tax >> policy >>>>> than those that hold themselves out to serve individuals. Thus, >> shifting to >>>>> a model that openly includes individuals could have significant >> unintended >>>>> implications for ARIN. >>>>> >>>>> That doesn?t mean it can?t be done, but it would be important to >>>>> understand the problem that such a change would solve. ARIN accepts >>>>> incorporated entities, DBAs, sole proprietors, etc.?because we know >>>>> networks are run by all kinds of operators. But in every case, we?re >> still >>>>> issuing to an organization, however minimal the structure might be. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> /John >>>>> >>>>> John Curran >>>>> President and CEO >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 2:09?PM, Preston Ursini via ARIN-PPML < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> If a sole proprietorship is accepted, I am confused as to why an >>>>> Individual cannot be accepted as they are generally the same legal >> entity >>>>> unless it is an individual? >>>>> >>>>> There are over 20,000 political subdivisions within the United States >>>>> when you count cities, counties, townships, etc., all with their own >> rules >>>>> when it comes to business licenses and conducting business, trying to >> tie >>>>> every sole proprietorship down with a business license when one may >> not be >>>>> required in many of these jurisdictions seems strange at best. >>>>> >>>>> In general the law sees Corporations and Individuals as all in the >> same, >>>>> so I?m a little confused as to why ARIN would be ok with doing business >>>>> with a sole proprietor but not an "individual"? >>>>> >>>>> If the issue is fraud prevention, it seems like a better approach would >>>>> be tying all accounts regardless of whether it is a >> business/individual, >>>>> with a government issued identification document; the trend with >> having an >>>>> officer of a company sign an RSA seems to be a step in the direction in >>>>> tying real people to accounts; assuming the goal here is to ensure >>>>> accountability for resource allocation? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Preston Ursini >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 7:21?AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Send ARIN-PPML mailing list submissions to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>>>> than "Re: Contents of ARIN-PPML digest..." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Today's Topics: >>>>> >>>>> 1. Re: distributing resources for individuals >>>>> ([email protected]) >>>>> 2. Re: distributing resources for individuals (John Curran) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> Message: 1 >>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 09:00:26 +0200 >>>>> From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>>>> To: arin-ppml <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals >>>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >>>>> Hi John, >>>>> >>>>> A couple of questions on this: >>>>> >>>>> 1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and ?inexpensive? >>>>> procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te >> division >>>>> in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN? >>>>> >>>>> 2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of keeping >>>>> that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not only >> money, >>>>> but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to present >>>>> quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical >> activity), >>>>> is close to ?zero"? >>>>> >>>>> 3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a >>>>> sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more >> expensive >>>>> or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or >> membership >>>>> documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN decisions, >> instead >>>>> of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and of >> course >>>>> a valid justification for the resources that you request (which is >> already >>>>> set in the policies for each type of resource)? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Jordi >>>>> >>>>> @jordipalet >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <[email protected]> escribi?: >>>>> >>>>> Ryan - >>>>> >>>>> Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few times >>>>> in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard and >> we do >>>>> have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain number >>>>> resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration works, >>>>> incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for further >>>>> discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the problem to be >>>>> solved. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> /John >>>>> >>>>> John Curran >>>>> President and CEO >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> John, >>>>> >>>>> I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources are >> under >>>>> my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org >> tickets, and >>>>> the legal team. >>>>> >>>>> A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in >> several >>>>> states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes signing >> ARIN's >>>>> agreements. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, >>>>> >>>>> Ryan Hamel >>>>> From: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> on behalf of David Farmer >>>>> via ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM >>>>> To: John Curran <[email protected]> >>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals >>>>> >>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take >>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments. >>>>> >>>>> John, >>>>> >>>>> The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other states; if >>>>> you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you don't >> need to >>>>> register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship. >>>>> >>>>> So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of State, >>>>> effectively, that requires more than just operating as a business; it >> also >>>>> requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not under the >>>>> owner's name. >>>>> >>>>> Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating that an >>>>> organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of >> latitude >>>>> should be available to establish that an individual is acting as a >> business >>>>> and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and procedures >> don't >>>>> neatly align with ARIN procedures. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <[email protected] <mailto: >>>>> [email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <[email protected] >> <mailto: >>>>> [email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Originally >>>>> 12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly harmed >> by >>>>> this. >>>>> In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to register >> with >>>>> the Secretary of State. >>>>> ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with >>>>> Secretary of State database. >>>>> We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but that >>>>> wasn't good enough. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Paul - >>>>> >>>>> To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that >> resulted >>>>> from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were >> unable to >>>>> register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013? There >> is a >>>>> 7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but from all >>>>> appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there >> is/was >>>>> some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks >> understand >>>>> the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do so. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> /John >>>>> >>>>> John Curran >>>>> President and CEO >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> ARIN-PPML >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ********************************************** >>>>> IPv4 is over >>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ? >>>>> http://www.theipv6company.com >>>>> The IPv6 Company >>>>> >>>>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or >>>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use >> of >>>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized >>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this >>>>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly >>>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not >> the >>>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution >> or >>>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including >>>>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal >>>>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this >>>>> communication and delete it. >>>>> >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: < >>>>> >> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250417/59eecf73/attachment-0001.htm >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Message: 2 >>>>> Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2025 12:21:30 +0000 >>>>> From: John Curran <[email protected]> >>>>> To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> >>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals >>>>> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> >>>>> Jordi - >>>>> >>>>> The representation you seek from ARIN regarding government procedures >>>>> across the the entire region is not possible to make ? and as you >> note, it >>>>> would be meaningless the very next day because such laws and >> regulations >>>>> are outside of ARIN?s control and subject to change. Note that this >> is the >>>>> case regardless of whether speaking of networks run by organizations or >>>>> individuals ? the legal requirements on networks in any given portion >> of >>>>> the ARIN region are not determined by ARIN. >>>>> >>>>> What we can say is that our customers want us to be reasonably flexible >>>>> in our processes to the extent possible, just as we are with respect to >>>>> confirming whether organizations requesting resources operate within >> the >>>>> ARIN region. We?ve evolved our processes over time to make be more >>>>> straightforward, and this includes handling entities that are >> incorporated, >>>>> those using DBA registrations, sole proprietorships, etc. >>>>> >>>>> Your original query noted that ? In LACNIC we are having a discussion >>>>> because the policy manual only allows to distribute resources to >>>>> ?organizations legally registered? ? ? To be clear, ARIN is >> effectively the >>>>> same, but we are quite flexible in recognition of how our network >> customers >>>>> may go about their legal registration. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks! >>>>> /John >>>>> >>>>> John Curran >>>>> President and CEO >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 17, 2025, at 3:00?AM, jordi.palet--- via ARIN-PPML < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi John, >>>>> >>>>> A couple of questions on this: >>>>> >>>>> 1) There is a formal confirmation that this ?simple and ?inexpensive? >>>>> procedure is the same in all the ?areas? (states, whatever is te >> division >>>>> in each country) for all the service region countries of ARIN? >>>>> >>>>> 2) Are we sure that in all those areas/countries the cost of keeping >>>>> that ?status? (the one that is valid for ARIN), and I mean not only >> money, >>>>> but also recurrent paperwork (like for example if you need to present >>>>> quarterly/yearly tax reports, even if you don?t had economical >> activity), >>>>> is close to ?zero"? >>>>> >>>>> 3) As 1 and 2 above may change (a country law may decide that a >>>>> sole-proprietorship may be enforced to something else much more >> expensive >>>>> or cease that status), do it make sense that the policy and/or >> membership >>>>> documents ask for something that doesn?t depend on ARIN decisions, >> instead >>>>> of relaying in making sure that you provide ?real documents? and of >> course >>>>> a valid justification for the resources that you request (which is >> already >>>>> set in the policies for each type of resource)? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Jordi >>>>> >>>>> @jordipalet >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> El 17 abr 2025, a las 2:34, John Curran <[email protected]> escribi?: >>>>> >>>>> Ryan - >>>>> >>>>> Indeed. As both myself (and Bill Herrin) have pointed out a few times >>>>> in this discussion, ARIN already has flexibility in this regard and >> we do >>>>> have sole proprietorships that enter into agreements and obtain number >>>>> resources. Sole proprietorship works, DBA name registration works, >>>>> incorporation of a legal entity works ? hence the reason for further >>>>> discussion in order to gain a better understanding of the problem to be >>>>> solved. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> /John >>>>> >>>>> John Curran >>>>> President and CEO >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 8:16?PM, Ryan Hamel <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> John, >>>>> >>>>> I echo David's point coming from California. My ARIN resources are >> under >>>>> my legal name, which was approved by the team that handles org >> tickets, and >>>>> the legal team. >>>>> >>>>> A sole proprietor without a DBA, can legally conduct business in >> several >>>>> states and potentially provinces too, and that also includes signing >> ARIN's >>>>> agreements. >>>>> >>>>> Kind regards, >>>>> >>>>> Ryan Hamel >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>> From: ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> on behalf of David Farmer >>>>> via ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2025 4:58:48 PM >>>>> To: John Curran <[email protected]> >>>>> Cc: arin-ppml <[email protected]> >>>>> Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] distributing resources for individuals >>>>> >>>>> Caution: This is an external email and may be malicious. Please take >>>>> care when clicking links or opening attachments. >>>>> >>>>> John, >>>>> >>>>> The issue is in Missouri, Minnesota, and probably many other states; if >>>>> you are doing business under your own name and not a DBA, you don't >> need to >>>>> register with the state to operate a sole proprietorship. >>>>> >>>>> So, if ARIN procedures require a lookup with the Secretary of State, >>>>> effectively, that requires more than just operating as a business; it >> also >>>>> requires operating that business under a fictitious name, not under the >>>>> owner's name. >>>>> >>>>> Section 9 of the NRPM gives a lot of latitude for demonstrating that an >>>>> organization operates within the ARIN region. A similar amount of >> latitude >>>>> should be available to establish that an individual is acting as a >> business >>>>> and not an individual, even if the jurisdiction's laws and procedures >> don't >>>>> neatly align with ARIN procedures. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, Apr 16, 2025 at 6:04?PM John Curran <[email protected]<mailto: >>>>> [email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Apr 16, 2025, at 6:02?PM, Paul E McNary <[email protected] >> <mailto: >>>>> [email protected]>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Originally >>>>> 12 years ago when I tried to get ARIN resources, I was greatly harmed >> by >>>>> this. >>>>> In Missouri at that time a Sole Proprietor did not have to register >> with >>>>> the Secretary of State. >>>>> ARIN would not issue resources unless they could verify you with >>>>> Secretary of State database. >>>>> We had a State Sales Tax and Employment Tax ID for 20 years, but that >>>>> wasn't good enough. >>>>> >>>>> Paul - >>>>> >>>>> To be certain there?s a clear understanding of the problem that >> resulted >>>>> from the organization requirement ? are you saying that you were >> unable to >>>>> register a DBA name with Missouri Secretary of State in 2013? There >> is a >>>>> 7$ fee associated with such registration (every 5 years) but from all >>>>> appearances it is otherwise a rather nominal process, so if there >> is/was >>>>> some other barrier it would be good to explain it so that folks >> understand >>>>> the scope of the problem that you experienced when trying to do so. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> /John >>>>> >>>>> John Curran >>>>> President and CEO >>>>> American Registry for Internet Numbers >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> ARIN-PPML >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ********************************************** >>>>> IPv4 is over >>>>> Are you ready for the new Internet ? >>>>> http://www.theipv6company.com >>>>> The IPv6 Company >>>>> >>>>> This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or >>>>> confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use >> of >>>>> the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized >>>>> disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this >>>>> information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly >>>>> prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not >> the >>>>> intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution >> or >>>>> use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including >>>>> attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal >>>>> offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this >>>>> communication and delete it. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> ARIN-PPML >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >>>>> >>>>> -------------- next part -------------- >>>>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >>>>> URL: < >>>>> >> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250417/4718a46d/attachment.htm >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Digest Footer >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> ARIN-PPML mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>> >>>>> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 17 >>>>> ****************************************** >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> ARIN-PPML >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> ARIN-PPML >>>>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>>>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>>>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>>>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>>>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> =============================================== >>>>> David Farmer Email:[email protected] >>>>> Networking & Telecommunication Services >>>>> Office of Information Technology >>>>> University of Minnesota >>>>> 2218 University Ave SE >>>>> < >> https://www.google.com/maps/search/2218+University+Ave+SE?entry=gmail&source=g >>> >>>>> Phone: 612-626-0815 >>>>> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 >>>>> =============================================== >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>> ARIN-PPML >>> You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to >>> the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). >>> Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: >>> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >>> Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> =============================================== >> David Farmer Email:[email protected] >> Networking & Telecommunication Services >> Office of Information Technology >> University of Minnesota >> 2218 University Ave SE Phone: 612-626-0815 >> Minneapolis, MN 55414-3029 Cell: 612-812-9952 >> =============================================== >> -------------- next part -------------- >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... >> URL: < >> https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250418/53c44af4/attachment.htm >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Subject: Digest Footer >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ARIN-PPML mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 40 >> ****************************************** >> > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <https://lists.arin.net/pipermail/arin-ppml/attachments/20250421/7c398c04/attachment.htm> > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > > > ------------------------------ > > End of ARIN-PPML Digest, Vol 238, Issue 41 > ****************************************** >
_______________________________________________ ARIN-PPML You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues.
