> > Okay, so the LLM detector can flag the post as LLM generated and the > community can use that information how?
That's for the individual to decide. If it were me, I would skip the email. “AI slop” Are we back to using AI? That is the current publicly known term for LLM-generated content, which is alternatively known as "brain rot" content. I've never publicly seen "LLM Slop". Either way, nobody wants to read slop and slop is not convincing, so what > would be the incentive to post it? The same incentives as traditional spam email/texts for decades. I am against, for the umpteenth time, using tools to subvert the list. I favour LLM spam detection and flagging (bare minimum). I've said what I've had to say. Thanks. *--* Best Regards Daryll Swer Website: daryllswer.com <https://l.shortlink.es/l/1c708201ba14c08db4ff25ebcafded9778422075?u=2153471> On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 18:25, Mike Burns <[email protected]> wrote: > Thanks Daryll, for the conversation. > > > > Okay, so the LLM detector can flag the post as LLM generated and the > community can use that information how? > > > > “AI slop” Are we back to using AI? > > Either way, nobody wants to read slop and slop is not convincing, so what > would be the incentive to post it? > > > > I am against, for the umpteenth time, using tools to subvert the list. > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > > > > > *From:* Daryll Swer <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2026 8:50 AM > *To:* Mike Burns <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Mike Burns <[email protected]>; Fernando Frediani <[email protected]>; > [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer.... > > > > Is it your position that it is okay for a poster to use an LLM to read the > list and create an argument that the poster then proffers to the list? > > Since it's inevitable, my position is that the poster declares, "I used an > LLM to generate the argument below/above". > > > > Or that we should rely on LLM-detection outrunning LLM content generation > to filter LLM-sourced content? > > LLM-detection still should be enabled to flag (if not outright filter). > > > > My underlying point remains. It does not matter the source of the > argument made in a post. > > Only the argument matters, so why use LLM to filter out arguments? > > So that we avoid wasting time reading AI slop just to arrive at the > conclusion "Ah, yes, AI slop" 6 minutes later. > > > *--* > > Best Regards > > Daryll Swer > > Website: daryllswer.com > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/6ef80e42010b5b5888f75ae9d9f0421bf8f69b9f?u=2153471> > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 18:13, Mike Burns <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Daryll, > > > > “Autonomous” “Surprisingly elegant” “Groundbreaking” > > > > I think a visit to the footnote links would be beneficial. > > But it is besides the point. > > > > We know LLMs are getting better. > > > > Is it your position that it is okay for a poster to use an LLM to read the > list and create an argument that the poster then proffers to the list? > > Or that we should rely on LLM-detection outrunning LLM content generation > to filter LLM-sourced content? > > > > My underlying point remains. It does not matter the source of the > argument made in a post. > > Only the argument matters, so why use LLM to filter out arguments? > > > > Regards, > Mike > > > > > > *From:* Daryll Swer <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2026 8:29 AM > *To:* Mike Burns <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Mike Burns <[email protected]>; Fernando Frediani <[email protected]>; > [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer.... > > > > Yes, I have read about using LLMs to detect LLMs, although at this point I > think we humans can still do that effectively. > > Long-term, LLM-based spam detection is the way. > > > > Yes, AI has solved several significant unsolved math problems. Notable > breakthroughs include: > > The Planar Unit Distance Problem: An internal OpenAI model autonomously > solved this 80-year-old problem posed by Paul Erdős. The AI disproved a > central conjecture in discrete geometry, producing a 125-page "chain of > thought" that top mathematicians—including Fields Medalist Timothy > Gowers—verified as groundbreaking. [1, 2, 3, 4] > The Erdős Primitive Set Conjecture: An AI model solved this problem in > about 80 minutes, using classical number theory tools to produce a proof > celebrated by experts as surprisingly elegant. [1] > Various Erdős Problems: Google DeepMind and various researchers have used > AI tools to solve dozens of lesser-known or partial unsolved problems and > conjectures left behind by Paul Erdős. [1, 2] > Matrix Multiplication: AI systems like AlphaEvolve autonomously discovered > faster matrix multiplication algorithms, achieving the first major > improvement in 50 years. [1] > > > > One can't say LLMs solved these problems with *zero* human involvement or > intervention on any level; plenty of human work hours were involved in part > of the process. > > > > *--* > > Best Regards > > Daryll Swer > > Website: daryllswer.com > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/4e5ef9300a2918b334ac7bfa070d3caf4d0f3c81?u=2153471> > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 17:51, Mike Burns <[email protected]> wrote: > > HI Daryll, > > > > Yes, I have read about using LLMs to detect LLMs, although at this point I > think we humans can still do that effectively. > > > > For example, the text below above my salutation is obviously LLM generated > and speaks to your point about the current limits of LLMs. > > > > Yes, AI has solved several significant unsolved math problems. Notable > breakthroughs include: > > - *The Planar Unit Distance Problem:* An internal OpenAI model > autonomously solved this 80-year-old problem posed by Paul Erdős. The AI > disproved a central conjecture in discrete geometry, producing a 125-page > "chain of thought" that top mathematicians—including Fields Medalist > Timothy Gowers—verified as groundbreaking. [1 > > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/96bef505df831f771a42ef829ecfbd452520339c?u=2153471>, > 2 > > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/c9b561e9daa96c46e6f2b1d7a83a23121bbacef1?u=2153471>, > 3 > > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/051e49bbc625d94c55a72c151cca455850d487ca?u=2153471>, > 4 > > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/3e037dbf3af7e7da0fb8d4fae0d0a00056a55f95?u=2153471> > ] > - *The Erdős Primitive Set Conjecture:* An AI model solved this > problem in about 80 minutes, using classical number theory tools to produce > a proof celebrated by experts as surprisingly elegant. [1 > > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/eb26696ce8b221f7a75945b036e8dae1fbe700ad?u=2153471> > ] > - *Various Erdős Problems:* Google DeepMind and various researchers > have used AI tools to solve dozens of lesser-known or partial unsolved > problems and conjectures left behind by Paul Erdős. [1 > > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/fe177c039a09f23d02a382313dfd19f0e6b468d5?u=2153471>, > 2 > > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/b11cffceb1ec2e45a90ceb48ce999b779f33b9cc?u=2153471> > ] > - *Matrix Multiplication:* AI systems like AlphaEvolve autonomously > discovered faster matrix multiplication algorithms, achieving the first > major improvement in 50 years. [1 > > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/7939d270707152cf18d12d3f066477a2e361e98f?u=2153471> > ] > > Regards, > Mike > > > > > > *From:* Daryll Swer <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2026 8:14 AM > *To:* Mike Burns <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Mike Burns <[email protected]>; Fernando Frediani <[email protected]>; > [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer.... > > > > Fair enough, and I will refer to it as LLMs so as to avoid confusion. > > Agreed, as of 2026, at least. > > > > Surely you have heard about LLMs solving unsolved math problems already? > > That's a misleading statement, to say the least. These LLMs are tools that > constantly require human intervention to move forward. This means humans > used LLMs to *assist* in solving some problems (including mathematics). > > > > LLMs did not solve these problems "single-handedly" with zero human > intervention. I know, sci-fi is cool and I'd like a time machine, but let's > stick to reality in this forum/channel. > > > > I am more concerned with the obvious path of these LLMs in the future. > > My point stands. You don’t know if an LLM wrote this reply to you. > > Agreed. Typically, some website hosting platforms use LLM itself to help > spot or flag LLM-generated text content/spam. > > > > So perhaps, for these mailing lists - the "spam filters" need an upgrade > to support LLM-based detection/flagging with clear UI/UX signalling to > subscribers so they know if an email body contains potential LLM-generated > content. > > > *--* > > Best Regards > > Daryll Swer > > Website: daryllswer.com > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/edc6fb5ccdcfdb521745067f235d30b8e90add56?u=2153471> > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 17:36, Mike Burns <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Daryll, > > > > Fair enough, and I will refer to it as LLMs so as to avoid confusion. > > Surely you have heard about LLMs solving unsolved math problems already? > > I am more concerned with the obvious path of these LLMs in the future. > > > > My point stands. You don’t know if an LLM wrote this reply to you. > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > > > *From:* Daryll Swer <[email protected]> > *Sent:* Friday, July 24, 2026 8:03 AM > *To:* Mike Burns <[email protected]> > *Cc:* Mike Burns <[email protected]>; Fernando Frediani < > [email protected]>; [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer.... > > > > In this peculiar type of forum how would you know whether you have seen it? > > > > Which medical/neuroscience institute has verified that "AI" (something > adjacent to, equivalent to, or surpassing the human brain) exists in the > public domain? > > > > I think you're conflating "AI" (which no authority has yet verified exists > in the public domain) with LLMs and slop. > > > > There's nothing to see regarding something that does not currently exist > in the public domain. > > > *--* > > Best Regards > > Daryll Swer > > Website: daryllswer.com > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/38fb91dd4be6732199adbfa97771a871b07dbfeb?u=2153471> > > > > > > On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 17:25, Mike Burns <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Daryll, > > > > In this peculiar type of forum how would you know whether you have seen it? > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > > > > > Sent from my Galaxy > > > > > > -------- Original message -------- > > From: Daryll Swer <[email protected]> > > Date: 7/24/26 3:57 AM (GMT-05:00) > > To: Mike Burns <[email protected]> > > Cc: Fernando Frediani <[email protected]>, [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer.... > > > > > the best arguments if they come from AI > > I've yet to see such an incident. And to my knowledge, "AI" isn't publicly > available yet; we only have LLMs. > > > *--* > > Best Regards > > Daryll Swer > > Website: daryllswer.com > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/8ca45c7b170af55b883b29adc1a353d0ae727d00?u=2153471> > > > > > On Fri, 24 Jul 2026 at 02:33, Mike Burns via ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Hi Fernando, > > > > I welcome your thoughts. > > It may get harder and harder to distinguish between polish and outright > verbatim echoing of AI posts by a human interlocutor. > > The open mailing list is designed to solicit the best arguments, should we > ignore the best arguments if they come from AI? > > > > It seems likely to be that we will be dealing with this situation at some > point. > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > > > > > *From:* ARIN-PPML <[email protected]> *On Behalf Of *Fernando > Frediani > *Sent:* Thursday, July 23, 2026 1:49 PM > *To:* [email protected] > *Subject:* Re: [arin-ppml] Slow summer.... > > > > Surely no AI should post in a human discussion mail list. It doesn't make > much sense > If people want to use AI to polish their text no problem, as long messages > are reviewed and sent by humans. > > Mail list should not be treated a destination for automated systems to > send message, just for human discussions. > > Fernando > > On 7/23/2026 2:09 PM, Mike Burns via ARIN-PPML wrote: > > Hello List, > > > > Based on a current discussion on the AFRINIC policy development list, I > wanted to discuss the use of AI to post to policy lists. > > > > Because these are open forums handled by email, it is quite trivial for > any AI to be echoed to the list by a real person, or even post directly in > the guise of a real person. > > I have used translators to help me post, I expect more and more will use > AI to polish, if not create their posts. > > > > So simply banning use of AI is not the answer, but it brings up some > questions. > > > > Is this the camel’s nose of AI into human government? > > Should we empower an AI to post directly, or be callable like ask grok? > > Should we treat the AI posts just like any other post? > > > > I am not discussing abuse of the list through repeated AI posts restating > the same argument and I assume lists have existing tools to exclude certain > posters who do abuse. > > > > Any thoughts on using AI on stakerholder governance lists? > > > > Regards, > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ARIN-PPML > > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/9590903c190250a43b5717a7174cc551403a5948?u=2153471> > > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. > > _______________________________________________ > ARIN-PPML > You are receiving this message because you are subscribed to > the ARIN Public Policy Mailing List ([email protected]). > Unsubscribe or manage your mailing list subscription at: > https://lists.arin.net/mailman/listinfo/arin-ppml > <https://l.shortlink.es/l/4603a5037ef898c97ea1be7f419c039296b20b8d?u=2153471> > Please contact [email protected] if you experience any issues. > >
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