Any status update on the 3D printing issues?
On 05/19/2017 07:03 AM, Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton wrote: > --- > crowd-funded eco-conscious hardware: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68 > > > On Fri, May 19, 2017 at 5:08 AM, Neil Jansen <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> and now you can use a 24v heater you can spend another extra $5 on an >>> E3Dv6 volcano clone, now you can get *another* 20% increase in speed >>> for only a 2.5% increase in budget. >> >> As you can see from the pics, we ran on the cheapest 12V power supplies that >> we could find. Before that I tested 24V, it wasn't worth the cost. Again, >> brickwall economics here. We went cheap. The 12V power supplies were >> purchased in bulk and were maybe $14 USD each? > > yeh meanwell's my favourite and there's no difference between 12 and > 24v prices. > >> The 3D printed mounts and >> the little PCB's were practically free and it would turn the supply on and >> off between jobs whereas our 24V bricks were on all the time. The ONLY >> thing that we splurged on at the time was the E3D nozzles and that was more >> of a crapshoot. I would have done better to cheap out on those as well, I >> could have printed more reliably with the cheaper J-Heads. > > i wonder what was going on as the only time i've had problems with an > E3Dv6 is when the fan on the heatsink wasn't running. that was bad. > heat travelled up the tube and melted the filament *above* the hotend > entry point. all bets were off at that point. > >> Don't bother minimizing extrusion if you do end up redesigning (gah!). It's >> cheap as dirt nowadays if you're buying the generic stuff. If you want >> rigid, well there you go. > > i do - and i know how it's achieved. i've had an excellent 3D visual > manipulation ability for like... 35 years. > >> I have a junk box full of Melzi's, they were horrible, but it was all >> manufacturing defects from a crappy Chinese company. The Chinese version >> took some artistic leeway that the original (British IIRC?) designer >> probably never intended. > > aiyaaa... > >> I've used both as I've said. Mine never stalled out. I used cheap-as-dirt >> A4998's. Of course, I was running them < 100mm/sec and they were happy >> there. > > yehyeh. > >>> i just... i can't bring myself to spend backers' money on stuff that >>> i know is crud, neil. >> >> You're starting to sound like a German engineer now :) They're not crud if >> you use them within the constraints that I outlined. No need to turn your >> nose at them. What I'm trying to get at is that you've got this huge point >> of diminishing returns, you can place yourself on either side of it. > > i will stop when the speed/$ improvement is parity. anything that > gives a 1:1 ratio (or less, obviously) is not worth it and is "out"... > *unless* an improvement can in turn have a cascade effect of allowing > *another* improvement that *does* increase the speed/$ ratio. > >>> sso i've been spending some time tracking down board designs and so >>> on. Arduino Due: https://world.taobao.com/item/539393961702.htm RMB >>> 75 so that's around $12. >> >> Dang those Due's are getting cheaper, back in my day those were a pretty >> penny. > > yehyeh - my favourite's the STM32F072 as it has a built-in crystal (a > not very good one) but then the PLL can phase-lock to the USB bus from > whatever it's connected to, compensating for crystal inaccuracies. > price? $1.70. STM32F072-NUCLEO board? $10 on digikey. > > mad. absolutely mad. > >>> and TRAMS uses TMC2100s, where their Reference Design has full PCB >>> and schematics available: if i'm doing 10+ i can just send that to >>> mike and he can make them. TRAMS is *real* basic. 4 steppers, 2 >>> beefy power MOSFETs (extruder, printbed), 2 smaller ones for fans. >> >> <3 TMC2100's. Our PnP was going to use TMC2130's. Great German drivers. >> However #1 they're hard as shit to import into China, which sucked for us at >> the time. You can get damn near anything in China but this was one of those >> parts that just isn't really something that they use. It was, to this day, >> the only part that I could not find on Taobao. We may have smuggled our >> samples in from Hong Kong. > > dang. > > well.. > https://world.tmall.com/item/551108503978.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.3zdhiQ > RMB 23. about $4. > > so that looks prooobably like it's sorted... > >> #2 they're only really necessary if you want to >> squeeze performance out of your stepper motors. For our farm we never did >> that, we didn't need to. > > $200 for a 50-100mm/sec printer with low-cost steppers... > $300 for a 200-250mm/sec printer with only-slightly-higher-cost steppers... > > a 2x or greater speed improvement for only a 1.5x cost... that's an > opportunity i can't ignore > > >> >>> MGN9C rails so that the problems associated with rods go away. >>> triple lead screws (i might consider quadruple) on the printbed, NO >>> CANTILEVERING. >> >> You're a madman. You sure like to over-engineer things, don't you? :) > > no, i simply like to properly and comprehensively assess all six > degrees of freedom, which i am honestly constantly amazed that 3d > printer designers don't do, and i like to properly and i do _mean_ > properly research what the best mechanical options are. but... that's > taken me about... 2-3 years to do (!) > > >>> well, here's the thing: i actually quite like trying out things that >>> other people aren't doing. but also taking calculated risks. >> >> Sounds like you've already got your mind made up. > > i've got an _approach_ (an assessment criteria) where my mind's made > up, but nothing else. the one thing that i might add is "risk". as > in it would *really* piss me off to have a chain of improvements that, > at the end of the design process, there's something i missed which > made the whole exercise totally frickin useless. > > i had that happen once before. not a huge fan of it happening again :) > >> I'm not here to tell you >> what to do. I'm just sharing my experience and what worked for me. > > appreciated. > >> Like >> many technical problems, it's all about the approach. There are as many >> different approaches as there are engineers and business men. You know what >> is ultimately best for your situation. If it were me in your shoes though >> .. well, I'd never put myself in that position again, haha. Nope, one and >> done, thank you very much. > > :) > >> Any of my future products I make will be CNC >> machined, laser cut, or injection molded, and then outsourced. As long as >> it's a durable product, it's not really any worse than the energy expended >> to setup a printer farm. > > yehh we're not quite at the medium-volume phase yet, i don't want > 10,000 people dropping by the forum expecting "user support" on "how > to compile and patch linux kernel drivers" > > >> >> ...annd from your previous-previous email, I forgot to reply to this little >> bit: >> >>> love it. well let's get you on the list for a pre-production prototype >>> ok? >> >> Yea, hook a brother up. The pre-production is the A20 > > yes. > >> or is it the older >> one? Are there any basic breakout boards or dev boards for it to plug into? > > yeah i have a breakout board PCB done (one component - the PCMCIA > socket) and am also planning to get early devs a microdesktop as well. > >> If you need an address or anything like that just let me know. > > later. i just need numbers initially. > > l. > > _______________________________________________ > arm-netbook mailing list [email protected] > http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook > Send large attachments to [email protected] > _______________________________________________ arm-netbook mailing list [email protected] http://lists.phcomp.co.uk/mailman/listinfo/arm-netbook Send large attachments to [email protected]
