"it is a general feeling that ARR is quite confident (though I think "too proud" would have explained it better but that would hurt several of you) about his musical instincts and creativity, and I concede that rightly so, but that makes him ignore lyrics "intentionally". Seems as if he considers lyrics are necessary evil and he is compromising the greatness of his music by putting lyrics in it. Sometimes he gets good poets so good lyrics come up but not as a rule of ARR songs, just because of the individual presence of a good lyrics writer who is not ready to compromise. *Seems ARR's standard of lyrics is as low as "jurrasic park mein sundar se jode rap music gaaye jam ke" or "patti rap" or "latka jhatka" or "telephone dhun mein hansne wali" sort of cheapness presented in the name of lyrics.*"
Hi Rawat, i would disagree with your view or judgment of a r r's standard of lyrics I'm sure you would have heard to songs of swades, ja, laagan, Yeh Jo Zhindagi (1947), just to name a few in hindhi and a lot of them in tamil, what i have observed above is that you have listed only shankar's movies and i remember A R R once in an interview had told he was not very well with the way shankar gets the lyrics done (Azhajana Ratsasiyae) so i guess it would be nince if you can see the bigger picture rather than few commercial songs done by a r rahman. my view is that one is free to have any oppinion but when you have a judgement you should atleast justify your comments. a r r's songs have won best lyrics award more than once ! I think it is the music which makes a song sell, not the lyrics, the days when directors narrated stories throgh songs are long gone. few directors like manirathnam, ashthosh, etc yet use songs to continue the story telling, and when you listen to the songs composed by a r r for these directors they will tell you that your judjement is not a fair one. if one is looking for lyrics then they have better choice of listening to hmv's golden collection, because lyrics which the mgr's and shivaji's and the balachander's movies is liked even today but not the music. "I don't know how many of you have heard "*muqabla*" in last one year or decade, that once went so popular that dozens of copycats mushroomed on it, its copies even went in two full fledged hindi movies, but how many of us are still listening it, how many of us listen to* hello doctor* or *Kay Sara Sara*. Such songs have a smaller lifespan. New catchy beats make them popular and then mind memorizes the beats pattern and the song looses charm leaving nothing emotional/ intellectual for the heart/ mind to cherish, and the song becomes boring or dead." I think the objective of these songs were clearly to gain instan publicity for the movies, and these a r r songs were spot on and did their job. muquabla will be hummed every time a new person gets into a r r's music. and moreover i do not think all songs need to be remebered life long, such songs are ment to stay for a short time only and the best part of a r rahman for the last 18 years is that he has been churning out such songs regularly and replacing the old ones i meen if it was muqabla some long years ago, khalbahli a few years ago, taxi a year ago, and now chigy wiggy! this is unique only to A R RAMAN, i think. On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 9:17 PM, patevis3 <[email protected]> wrote: > > > I agree with Rawat to some extent here. Music is not like mathematics where > there are objective realities/facts. Opinions about the goodness or quality > of music are always going to be subjective. > > And Arijit's point about lack of music knowledge is hubristic (in my, > admittedly not so humble opinion). > > Vishal > http://vishal12.wordpress.com/2009/09/10/blue-music-review/ > > > > --- In [email protected] <arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com>, > Arijit Debnath <arijit...@...> wrote: > > > > Listeners seem to be average..... sometimes... lack of knowledge of music > > are evident in some posts... > > > > Rahman is musicians' composer... not an average listener's composer..... > > > > I think who doesn't like Mozart's or Rahman's composition..... they > should > > not open their mouth...it's their shame... > > > > Arijit > > > > 2009/9/11 ichord <purev...@...> > > > > > > > > > > > Would love to hear your thoughts Wiredbeats. As a musician and composer > > > myself, I can clearly say with factual certainty that in terms of pure > > > compositional and musical terms only for a bollywood soundtrack, Blue > is a > > > masterpiece. It's not a personal judgement but a fact. What I will > agree to > > > is that whether you like the album due to taste or preference or > whatever, > > > that is an opinion, not a fact. Blue's music is compositionally > brilliant > > > due to intelligent harmonies, complex chord progressions, intricate > > > orchestral variations, depth of sound, and varied use of sounds and > > > instruments all weaving together at once. If you want to call the music > > > average because you don't like that type of music, fine, but that is > only an > > > opinion due to preference, not because the music itself is just run of > the > > > mill. > > > > > > A lot of people don't like Mozart's music, but the music is not average > by > > > any means.....it's intelligent and brilliant on an objective scale. > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected] > > > <arrahmanfans%40yahoogroups.com><arrahmanfans% > 40yahoogroups.com>, > > > > wiredbeats <wiredbeats@> wrote: > > > > > > > > fastastically written, some very valid points in here.i have some > > > thoughts. Will type them out later > > > > > > > > On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:06 IST V S Rawat wrote: > > > > > > > > >On 9/11/2009 6:56 PM India Time, _ichord_ wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> I am hearing the words mediocre and average being thrown around in > > > > >> some places to describe Blue's music in some reviews. Guys, how > can > > > > >> such brilliant work be average? > > > > > > > > > >It is a person's personal judgment whether a work is brilliant. > > > > > > > > > >Similarly, it is some other person's personal judgment whether a > work is > > > > > > > > not brilliant, and is mediocre, below average. > > > > > > > > > >> The depth of compositions and > > > > >> intricate orchestration and arrangements is anything BUT average > or > > > > >> below. Even saying above average is a huge understatement. > > > > > > > > > >You started with "lyrics are said to be bad", then you take a switch > to > > > > >"music is good" to say that "thus, lyrics also have to be good". see > for > > > > > > > >yourself. It is not really logical line of thinking. > > > > > > > > > >"depth of compositions and intricate orchestration and arrangements" > is > > > > >one aspect of the song, and that may be brilliant. Similarly, words/ > > > > >lyrics are another a different aspect of the song and they may be > > > > >mediocre/ below average while other aspects of songs are brilliant. > One > > > > >part being great doesn't make an entire song great. One part being > > > > >wanting doesn't make overall song lacking. > > > > > > > > > >For example, in recent times, chak de india's song kuch kariye had > such > > > > >lovely, heart touching, earthly lyrics by an unknown "Jaideep Sahni" > > > > >that would do even a Gulzar or Ghalib or Meer proud, but the music, > was > > > > >just ok, went too fast to let people absorb the lyrics, and the > khichdi > > > > >of "loud in comparison" "chak de India" refrain, and female chorus, > > > > >backgroun just "killed/ murdered/spoiled" the beauty of the mukhda/ > > > > >stanza portion of lyrics. This song should be taught in class room > as > > > > >the perfect case how to kill great lyrics. > > > > > > > > > >Similarly, Taare Zameen Par, had excellent hearth touching lyrics in > > > > >"dekho inhein hain os ki boondein", tune, music also good, still the > > > > >song went a tad slow, too soft, introvert, subdued that it didn't > get > > > > >the prominence it could have deserved. "Maa" of the same movie were > too > > > > >emotional in lyrics, music and singing that it deserve to not get > > > > >popular, irrespective of award it fetched for the singer. > > > > > > > > > >Again, all these are my personal judgment. > > > > > > > > > >ARR's Zindagi of Yuvraj has everything great, music, lyrics, > whatever > > > > >else. However, Ghajini's Kaise mujhe though we all like that a lot, > now > > > > >I think that that song is lacking something that I can't pinpoint > > > > >really. may be, it went a tad too loud, sort of a "declaration" for > a > > > > >emotional song that should have been introspective - a la zindagi. > > > > > > > > > >But, other songs of ghajini -- and I am not speaking of latto and > > > > >bachchoo which were intentionally kept cheap, had poor lyrics. The > most > > > > >popular guzarish had lyrics that a 10th standard child poet might > write, > > > > > > > >just putting rhyming words matching scale - no thought, no concept, > no > > > > >inner beauty, no content - that was wordsmithing, words being fitted > to > > > > >give the shape of a song like a menial worker putting physical > things to > > > > > > > >fit in a shape. Even then it got popular. > > > > > > > > > >Coming to lyrics of ballooo, blooo, ullooo, falloo, there are good > urdu > > > > >words put at places, that had not earlier been used much in ARR > songs, > > > > >so they sound good. But that is it and that is all. There is not > much > > > > >depth vibrating through entire song. These are just individual > separate > > > > >pieces that are good lyrics, but none of the entire song is a single > > > > >whole entity having a life of its own, no single thought or line of > > > > >thought peeking from the entire songs. > > > > > > > > > >It is a general feeling that ARR is quite confident (though I think > "too > > > > > > > >proud" would have explained it better but that would hurt several of > > > > >you) about his musical instincts and creativity, and I concede that > > > > >rightly so, but that makes him ignore lyrics "intentionally". Seems > as > > > > >if he considers lyrics are necessary evil and he is compromising the > > > > >greatness of his music by putting lyrics in it. Sometimes he gets > good > > > > >poets so good lyrics come up but not as a rule of ARR songs, just > > > > >because of the individual presence of a good lyrics writer who is > not > > > > >ready to compromise. Seems ARR's standard of lyrics is as low as > > > > >"jurrasic park mein sundar se jode rap music gaaye jam ke" or "patti > > > > >rap" or "latka jhatka" or "telephone dhun mein hansne wali" sort of > > > > >cheapness presented in the name of lyrics. > > > > > > > > > >Again, all these are my personal judgment. > > > > > > > > > >Blue lyrics are better than Ghajini's, but still writer is appeaing > as > > > > >novice who might have good potential in future, but is a kid > learning > > > > >and experimenting at present. > > > > > > > > > >Again, all these are my personal judgment. > > > > > > > > > >Coming to music, I have been hearing Blue now for most of some 48 > hours, > > > > > > > > and my conclusion is this. > > > > > > > > > >Blue music sounds so rich and complex as none of ARR's earlier album > had > > > > > > > >been in toto till now. > > > > > > > > > >But, it lacks content, it is showbiz, it is decorative, it is > soulless, > > > > >it is all glitter and nothing else. I am listening to it and liking > the > > > > >beats etc., but it is not giving me internal intellectual emotional > > > > >satisfaction that several of ARR's earlier words had given me. > > > > > > > > > >I don't know how many of you have heard "muqabla" in last one year > or > > > > >decade, that once went so popular that dozens of copycats mushroomed > on > > > > >it, its copies even went in two full fledged hindi movies, but how > many > > > > >of us are still listening it, how many of us listen to hello doctor > or > > > > >Kay Sara Sara. Such songs have a smaller lifespan. New catchy beats > make > > > > > > > >them popular and then mind memorizes the beats pattern and the song > > > > >looses charm leaving nothing emotional/ intellectual for the heart/ > mind > > > > > > > >to cherish, and the song becomes boring or dead. > > > > > > > > > >Blue songs are also like that. Will go very popular but will die > after > > > > >that and no one will humm them or listen to them while they still go > and > > > > > > > >will keep on going back to Dil Se after 11 years of its release or > > > > >Rangeela or Taal or Bombay or Guru after years and ages of their > > > release. > > > > > > > > > >Blue is ARR becoming commercial, though I agree that being > commercial is > > > > > > > >not a bad thing in a commercial world. But, in blue, ARR has become > > > > >purely 100% commercial, compromising his inner instinct of what he > knew > > > > >and trusted and gave for his fans' various tastes. This is not a > good > > > > >indication of the things that future holds from ARR and for ARR. > > > > > > > > > >Thanks for putting me into blabbering spree. > > > > >-- > > > > >Rawat > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Keep in mind, I'm not downing anyone who doesn't like the music > due > > > > >> to personal taste...have no problem with that. But to call the > music > > > > >> average when it is clearly musically superior in compositional > terms > > > > >> is just false. > > > > >> > > > > >> I can't believe how much I'm posting about Blue's music. You can > > > > >> tell I'm very excited and very happy.....almost bubbling with joy > and > > > > >> can't contain myself from posting here to express it! > > > > >> > > > > >> Thanks Gopal for creating a group that allows me to post my > thoughts > > > > >> and feelings so freely!! > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Connect more, do more and share more with Yahoo! India Mail. Learn > more. > > > http://in.overview.mail.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
