I'll add my two cents here as well on this (sort of) non-ARS-tech-Q thread. It is a subject that interests me as I have taught various programming classes over the years. As an aside, I looked up my first machine in Wikipedia, a GE 265, from an American high school without a computing course and three teletype terminals. I think it was a 7-bit machine. The language was line mode basic. The terminal had a paper tape output / input device and that was our external storage. I moved on from there to my first paying job, 5 years of assembler up to F with G just out at the end and punch cards for the first month or so. Those were the days! Real programmers didn't eat Quiche or do Pascal. I tend to introduce programming with an invented "pseudo-language" of various formalities tending more to loose English rather than a codified language. From there, I would prefer Pascal but things being things these days, all the languages are quite similar in syntax, logic structure, data declarations, "objects", etc. In a pseudo-language, I can concentrate on getting big simple ideas across regarding "logic, code, programming" and "data". In terms of my teaching, the order of languages by revenue is ca. MS VB (not as bad as one would think!), c++, c, Pascal, pseudo-languages. In terms of my learning, again in order of revenue (and certainly not time), c, c++, vb, basic (in various flavours on various machines), asm(ditto), and in no order, sh, perl, java, jscript, pal, cobol, rpg, pl/1, spl, ad nauseum. In terms of my coding, these days I use c for Meta-Update, a scripting language for the data portion of the ARS API, c++ for various GUI tools I offer, and very few convoluted requirements, to shell scripts, SQL procs, java, perl, and others. So, finally, I will say that one tends to pick up languages in order of when a payer is paying that person to write something in that language. The specific set of languages being governed by the person's karma or by chance alone. I always recommend getting a grounding on programming with intellectual concepts rather than a specific language. With a pseudo-language. But the same can be had through the use of a real language. Programming style is of utmost importance. A good style leads to less bugs and lower maintenance costs. Simple as that. No matter the language I use, my source looks surprisingly similar. Source should be human readable. Concentrate on that rather than the compiler! My source typically is 30% full line comments. Most code lines have a small comment to their right. To recommend a language for use with the ARS API (Remedy), that's the rub then isn't it? Again, what is your employer using and what is his skill sets in? If he has none and this is new, then your are setting direction. Your karma may be good. What skills are most available out there? How expensive are they? Is performance, platform-portability, memory, a concern? Is speed (cost) of development and changes a concern? VB is probably the easiest language to pick up. You may (possibly) want a DLL of some sort and you will be platform bound. Java is clean and simple. You will not be platform bound. c is a development nightmare but is fast and can implement anything without restriction. It is easy to make c platform bound. Perl is arcane but powerful and quick to develop. So, finally, pick any language; but try to search for these basic understanding of software design and data structures. This understanding will stand you in good stead throughout your whole IT life, no matter what you are actually doing. Whew that was long winded and took some time! Have a great summer everyone (except our S hemisphere friends). Cheers Ben Chernys Senior Software Architect Software Tool House Inc.
Canada / Deutschland / Germany Mobile: +49 162 175 0956 GMT + 1 + DST Email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Web: <http://www.softwaretoolhouse.com/> http://www.softwaretoolhouse.com A free notepad for Diary fields: <http://www.softwaretoolhouse.com/downloads/DiaryFieldEditor.htm> http://www.softwaretoolhouse.com/downloads/DiaryFieldEditor.htm An ARS integration, migration, import, batch facility: <http://www.softwaretoolhouse.com/> http://www.softwaretoolhouse.com/ _____ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Estep Sent: July 24, 2007 1:51 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Remedy and Programming Languages (UNCLASSIFIED) ** Hi Andrew, I know what you are saying, and I agree with you. I'm surprised perl isn't more widely used. But my team and I use perl all the time. There isn't anything faster or easier for crunching large amounts of string data. Excel has some rediculous 64,000 record limit, or something like that, so when we need to manipulate large amounts of data, we write a quick perl script. We initiate a lot of our interfaces using perl scripts. It's quick, easy to maintain, and never fails. I was raised that different languages have different strengths, but programming skill is language independent. And you are right, all anyone case about (at least it seems this way) are Java and C#, which are ok languages, and have their strengths. But, the also have their weaknesses. Java and/or C# are not the right language for every job. Have a great day, Bill Estep Nemours On 7/23/07, Andrew Hicox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I learned perl. Now I'm kinda pissed because it's just about dead unless you're developing websites with Mason. Looking back. I wish I'd taken the time to learn Java. Love it or hate it, it's become the defacto standard programming language in large corporations (one's that aren't all MS'd up with the C# and the .Net). Just look at how much java is in ARS itself. Don't get it twisted. Perl is a damn fine language, and it's never really let me down, it's just that if you chose something like that ... something that's hot right now, but doesn't have a whole lot in terms of money behind it (rails comes to mind, as does python) ... well the problem is that in a few years, you're going to have a VERY hard time recruiting help that can REALLY come in and take over your codebase. Look at what they're teaching in the colleges today. That's what'll be in the workforce tomorrow. My wake up call for java was when my younger brother went to college at GA Tech (6 or 7 years ago now). When I was in school, everyone had to take C / C++ ... they didn't even teach it anymore. EVERYONE had to learn Java. I should have went and bought a Java book right then and there, or at least taken some night courses or something ... but I was too busy meeting deadlines with my l33t perl + C toolkit, and developing the heck out of ARS with it. Now ... I've got an aging codebase, and I'm really really really tired of having to maintain it all myself, and I can't find anyone to hire who knows perl for anything other than websites. Now I've got some Java guys I'm supposed to work with to change it all over, but I still don't know any java, plus I've got to go back through all that perl code and explain what it all does. So yeah, choose wisely, once you're in it, there's no easy way back out ;-) -Andy On Jul 23, 2007, at 11:23 AM, Luttmann, Michael W CTR USA wrote: > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > I know this isn't the answer you're looking for, but I'd say learning > ANY programming language is useful. It's not the syntax that matters, > but learning the process of designing a program from start to > finish and > making it work. So choose a language that you might enjoy > learning, as > long as it makes you think like a software designer. And just like > learning a forgeign language, once you've learned one fairly well, the > next ones are much easier. > > My first programming language was BASIC (showing my age a bit, there), > then Turbo Pascal, followed by the dBase design languages, some Ada > (at > the Army automation school), SQL, and a smattering of VBScript/MS- > Access > programming, and C++ ... NONE of which I ever used or needed to make a > paycheck. Remedy is my bread and butter now, but the lessons I > learned > in programming the above languages for fun have served me well today. > > If I had to settle on one... In the long run, learning DB > programming in > dBase and SQL had the most Remedy "relevance", IMO. It taught me the > most about interacting with and manipulating stored data. > > HTH, > > Mike L. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mayfield, Andy L. > Sent: Monday, July 23, 2007 10:13 AM > To: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > Subject: Remedy and Programming Languages > > I would like some opinions from all my great friends here on the > ARSlist. > > If you had to choose one programming language to learn (for use > with Remedy) which one would you choose? > > Thanks in advance. > > Andy L. Mayfield > Sr. System Operation Specialist > Alabama Power Company > Office: 8-226-1805 > Cell: 288-9140 > SoLinc: 19140 > > <<Mayfield, Andy L..vcf>> > > ______________________________________________________________________ > __ > _______ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > ARSlist:"Where > the Answers Are" > Classification: UNCLASSIFIED > Caveats: NONE > > ______________________________________________________________________ > _________ > UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org > ARSlist:"Where the Answers Are" ____________________________________________________________________________ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the Answers Are" -- Bill Estep http://www.clubreading.com __20060125_______________________This posting was submitted with HTML in it___ _______________________________________________________________________________ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org ARSlist:"Where the Answers Are"
