Wow, what a great discussion. I can completely relate. I am a UNIX Solaris Admin by trade turned BMC developer. So I am obviously bias. I will put that out there right away. I guess you really have to look at the tide of IT in general to see where this might end up. Not that I really know anything, because the more I learn, it seems the dumber I get ;-)
I am a 100% fan of good ole UNIX (Solaris for me) with Oracle. Then installing BMC from the command prompt. Yes! I like troubleshooting on a black screen with a blinking courser. If you are really cool, you can make it green and clear. Once you hit enter, there is not going back. I was just having this discussion with one of my fellow colleagues last week. How UNIX doesn't ask over and over if "you are sure". It just executes and if you broke it, guess what, you get to fix it! Because "no one else" know UNIX. I love UNIX. Also I love troubleshooting and tuning Oracle on UNIX. So please do not get me wrong. I remember when Solaris 10 went to the Java interface, I was like, sweet! More windows like. It wasn't 10 seconds until one of my seniors told me, don't you dare "X-WIN" (or maybe hummingbird) into that GUI ever again! We do things here by command prompt SON! I smiled and said "got it." On to the command prompt I went. They would then proceed to show me how you can create groups and do all sorts of things by the GUI but it didn't always "take" in the OS. Especially, creating groups and access controls. Alas, I was schooled again :-). To the heart of this. I also love BMC development. When you combine the two, you get a guy who goes, "well, I understand what is happening." BMC developers and admins (I don't say just Remedy because there are so many other modules out there) are in good demand. Rightfully so. Businesses realized this type of software can literally make or break them. ITIL is a good thing. However, being a developer or admin you are so close to the business seniors that one often deals directly with them. Therefore, there is a lot to be said for more personal "saavy" and less programmer saavy in today's "ITIL" "BMC developer/admin" environment. Which, to me, is unfortunate. But is understandable. I believe, due to this, it kind of backs us BMC dev/admins into a corner. We balance the ability to develop (program if you will) and interface very heavily with seniors (usually a PM activity) in the company. Also, in today's reduced cost environments, it seems more and more companies want less and less remedy folks and tech leads/ remedy PM's (someone can be a PM, but without knowing the guts of Remedy, they become more of a speed bump than an asset to the process) but more and more results with more and more management (non-remedy folks). Which makes no sense, but alas, another dilemma for another post ;-). Due to all of this ball of wax, we get back to the question. I believe it is not that we are looking for an easy way out. It is just that, you cannot really expect an amin/dev to be a UNIX (LDOMS now) expert, Oracle (or whatever db) expert and BMC expert. Coupling with the ability to deal very heavily with the customer on a business process and engineering level. Impossible. So, what is the first thing to go? UNIX and DB. So, now BMC probably sees more requests (probably, just a guess, because I don't work for BMC, although I respect, very heavily, those who do ;-)) for quicker, easier to administer installers. More Windows VM's and SQL Server needs. It is so very hard to work on UNIX and Oracle. It is much easier and less time consuming working in Windows and SQL Server. I understand that and as a UNIX person I also respect that. We have all environments and I hardly have any problems with my Win/SQL Server environments. However the UNIX Solaris LDOMS/Oracle Systems are very, very hard to upgrade. Complicating it with several midtiers, load balancers, Server groupings, oracle RAC's etc. etc make it even worse. Sorry all for the diatribe. This is a subject I often think about. Try not to smash me for my views on the current state of UNIX/Oracle with BMC. Thanks, have a great weekend everyone! ________________________________ From: Andrew C Goodall <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 5:36 PM Subject: Re: ARS 7.6.04 -- Installers (in general) It's worse - we're being replaced by the "Cloud"! Regards, Andrew Goodall Software Engineer 2 | Development Services | jcpenney . www.jcp.com -----Original Message----- From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of pritch Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 4:50 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: ARS 7.6.04 -- Installers (in general) Guess that would make sense if we were being replaced by Chickens. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Axton" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 5:41:12 PM Subject: Re: ARS 7.6.04 -- Installers (in general) It seems the goal is to make it easy enough a chicken can click the button. There is a balance between form and function. From one extreme to the other it seems things have gone. I too miss the command line installer. "Meyer, Jennifer L" <[email protected]> wrote: >Those command-line installs are really nice, but I think BMC is moving toward GUI-based installers to look and feel more like MicroSnark products for those unfamiliar with command-line environments. > >Jennifer Meyer > >-----Original Message----- >From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of pritch >Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 4:52 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: ARS 7.6.04 -- Installers (in general) > >Whatever happened to the good old (Unix) installs where you filled in the prompts as they came up - I know I'm old (fashioned) but I really don't need fancy - I need functional. I also don't really care for the computer doing my thinking / checking for me. I find it doesn't always properly interpret what I'm looking for / need. > >We don't do installs everyday - but we do have to support the products everyday - better QA on the product would be preferred over worrying about installs. But then again, I'm usually a bit off the beaten path. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "David Easter" <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 1:19:09 PM >Subject: Re: ARS 7.6.04 -- Installers (in general) > >** > > >Patrick (and others), > > > > Snarkiness aside, could you elaborate more on the thought of " creating your installers so they are not ALL or nothing? " > > > > The current direction - based on feedback from the majority of BMC customers - is that customers do desire a consolidated installer for a solution. The requests have been to reduce the number of installers (as we did in AR System 7.5.00) and to create a method to install an entire solution through one installer (as we did with the Pre-configured Suite Stack Installer in 7.6.x). The next evolution for the ITSM Suite is what the Cloud Service Management (CSM) solution has done where there is an Install Planner that combines multiple components as well as enabling remote installation across several machines. The Install Planner does allow you to install sub-portions of the solution on appropriate systems - e.g. Install just the Mid-Tier on one machine or install just AR System/CMDB on a different machine, etc. > > > > The areas that we do need to improve would therefore be more around: > > > >1. Ensuring that the installation runs successfully. Our perception is that a customer would be willing to wait an additional 20% longer for an install to complete if they had a near 100% chance of success. In other words, it's better to have one successful install take 8 hours than it is to have to redo a 4 hour install 3 times. > >2. Ensure that if there is a failure, that the system immediately identifies it as a fatal situation either to the product being installed or a product to be installed in the future. > >3. In addition, if there is a failure, enable the install to continue from near to the point it failed rather than having to start over from scratch. > > > >Assuming that these are addressed - would you still desire to have individual installers for all the products in a solution? Or would addressing the above remove the need for your granular "baby-sitting" of the install and thus enable you to press the 'go' button and walk away. > > > >Is there anything else around the installer that would be critical on your list of needs to have full confidence in the installer - both for fresh installs and for upgrades? > > > >Note that this is an informal conversation, so while I appreciate the feedback, the process of submitting RFEs would still need to be followed if there are any specific enhancements that one would want to be formally tracked and responses provided. > > > >-David J. Easter > >Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform > >BMC Software, Inc. > > > >The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. > > > > >From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of patrick zandi >Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 07:25 AM >To: [email protected] >Subject: ARS 7.6.04 -- Installers (in general) > > > >** Now I know I am not the Remedy Engineer designing these applications or their installers, however ""I have a thought!"" > >BMC: Would you all consider creating your installers so they are not ALL or nothing? Maybe make the installer so that it asks what you want to install, then another box that says force (otherwise it checks to see if it is already successfully installed already). > >The only reason I say this is one simple reason.. if the installer takes up to 12 - 24 hours to run, and you do not have direct access to he server itself (its console).. then your like me.. > > I login to a windows box co-located and do a CygWin or Reflection X and call the display back.. but if you have ANY form of security, then the an idle console (terminal service) is a kick off after so long.. 1 hour usually.. >This is a frustrating to run an install of ITSM 2-4 times to make sure it finished. When if it had the checks or stages of some kind, then you would not have as much work to do, and you can continue where you left off.. > >Just wondering.. > > >-- >Patrick Zandi >_attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ _attend WWRUG11 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > >_______________________________________________________________________ ________ >UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org >attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" > >________________________________ > >E-mail correspondence to and from this address may be subject to the North Carolina Public Records Law and may be disclosed to third parties by an authorized state official. > >_______________________________________________________________________ ________ >UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org >attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" ________________________________________________________________________ _______ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" ________________________________________________________________________ _______ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug11 www.wwrug.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are" The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. 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