Hello there, I just discover this group ;)
This message to let you know that I've worked during last year and last weeks on a Maven plugin to generate Asciidoc documents. I've put everything on Gitorious. http://gitorious.org/maven-asciidoc-plugin Cheers, Arnaud Le mardi 1 janvier 2013 03:36:05 UTC+1, Stuart Rackham a écrit : > > Really interesting discussion, how to scale and manage an OSS project. > > I don't have strong opinions beyond wanting to keep the AsciiDoc > "core" stable (i.e. primarily in maintenance mode). > > These posts I made on older threads are still relevant (in fact I've > just converted the wordpress backend to a plugin and moved it to the > blogpost project where it belongs): > > ``The primary motivation for the plugin architecture was to enable > filters and backends to be implemented as plugins. The idea is to > decouple the AsciiDoc core from backends and filters. > The HTML and DocBook backends (and successors) will stay in the core > distribution but I envisage that all new backends will be implemented > as plugins. From a maintenance standpoint it's the only sane way > forward,'' > > ``At it's core asciidoc is a tool for generating HTML and DocBook > output and in my opinion it already has to many backends in the > distribution (my primary motivation for the recent plugins, themes and > filters support).'' > > > Cheers, Stuart > > > On 07/12/12 16:21, Lex Trotman wrote: > > [...] > >>> Yes, but ... if something is submitted and then the maintainer can't > >>> continue and noone else wants to do anything on it, what does the > >>> project do? Since it was part of the project people started using it > >>> and will be unhappy (or outright and volubly cranky) if it is removed > >>> because it has bit rotted and isn't compatible with the current > >>> asciidoc. > >> > >> > >> I think the definition of what is "part of" a project is evolving. I > can > >> only speak from experience. > >> > > > > I think the difference is your experience is in web stuff, where > > everything is dynamic and online, mine is in thingspace where code and > > docs need to also go offline, code in standalone machines and docs > > even in dead tree format :) > > > >> In the Arquillian "organization" on github, we have a few modules / > add-ons > >> that have been idle for awhile. The commit history tells the story that > the > >> people need to know...when it was last updated and by whom, and if > there are > > > > Which is fine if your customers are developers, they can be expected > > to understand such things, but Asciidoc is used by lots of > > non-developers, and they don't see or understand such subtleties. > > > > In fact my experience on Geany (an IDE, and therefore the users are > > mostly developers of some type) is that the same is often true for > > developers too :( > > > > > >> any pull requests open. If the visitor wants to see it active again, > they > >> are empowered to send a pull request (or ping on an existing one). That > >> could trigger a variety of activity. If it doesn't, the visitor can > escalate > >> to the mailinglist to plead for someone to attend to it or to make them > the > >> new maintainer. If all those options fail, they can just start > promoting > >> their own fork...and as a community we could decide how to go from > there. > > > > And again Asciidoc non-developers *can't* do that by themselves. > > > >> > >> In essence, I'm saying that rather than us (on behalf of the AsciiDoc > >> project) saying that some add-on is sanctioned, we let the facts > (commits) > >> speak for themselves. I've never had anyone come to me and say that > they > >> were mad because an add-on to Arquillian has become idle. If they were > mad, > >> they could fix it themselves. That's open source just doing what open > source > >> does best. > > > > Geany has been forced to deprecate and remove several plugins when > > they became incompatible due to lack of maintenance, and that got some > > howls :) > > > > If plugins are suitably important and suitable quality then maybe they > > can be taken under the project wing, so long as it gets some more > > developers beyond Stuart. I don't have guaranteed time to do more > > than answer stuff on the ML. > > > > It is very important for something like Asciidoc which is very mature > > and needs to maintain backward compatibility so that archived > > documents can continue to be processed. Plugins that a document needs > > must be as stable and backward compatible as the base application. > > [...] > >>> Well, thats the point of a wiki, it doesn't take Stuart or a Github > >>> committer to update anything. The only manual part is registering the > >>> user (to keep out bots and defacers) and that only happens once. > >> > >> > >> I realized when I read your response that I was thinking one thing and > >> typing another. I meant to say that it *should* be a wiki page rather > than a > >> file managed by a single person. It's when the responsibility falls on > a > >> single person's shoulders that it cannot be scalable. So ignore what I > said > >> and +1 to the wiki page listing these add-ons. > > > > That better, I was somewhat perplexed by the original reply :) > > > >> > >> For what it's worth, we could add a disclaimer that we don't sanction > the > >> extensions, we are just listing them to make people informed. I think > they > >> become "sanctioned" when they become part of the AsciiDoc distribution. > But > >> remember, this is all just community-supported, so I'm using > "sanctioned" > >> very loosely here. > > > > Sure the protected front page of the wiki should have all the > boilerplate etc. > > > >> > >>> > >>> > >>> Better is the > >>>> auto-discoverability approach, where it's easy to find things because > >>>> the > >>>> network links them organically. That's precisely how GitHub ends up > >>>> being > >>>> used. > >>> > >>> So any repos on github (or anywhere else for that matter) can be > >>> linked from the one place, but when the developer of the addon is > >>> ready, and not when it is half baked (how to turn people off). > >> > >> > >> Absolutely...we don't just pull in code without reviewing what state it > is > >> in first. For instance, take my bootstrap-docs backend. That is still > very > >> much a prototype and I wouldn't expect that to be put under the > asciidoc > >> organization yet. Once it's been vetted a bit more and users start > giving it > >> the thumbs up, then it would be time to "promote" it to the > organization to > >> get more visibility (and to be more useful to community). > >> > > > > Yes, that has always been a problem, how to gain maturity without > > exposing too many users to underdeveloped code. > > > >>> > >>> > >>> Also the wiki is useful for user acquired experience that is related > >>> to, but not directly asciidoc, eg how to beat dblatex and fop into > >>> line :) At the moment the FAQs are the repository of that knowledge > >>> and require website maintainer effort. > >> > >> > >> +1 > >> > >> Having worked with the JDF team to create their docs in AsciiDoc, I > know > >> they accumulated a number of tips to share. Having a wiki for that > >> information would be great! > >> > >> I happen to like the wiki on GitHub because it is, itself, a git > repository > >> and the documents can be written in AsciiDoc. That seems to be right in > our > >> direction...and there is no lock-in since the wiki can easily be > migrated > >> somewhere else. > > > > Havn't used the ones in github, but it appears that it only works > > locally, thats not too good for non-developers submissions. Needs to > > use git, have ruby, and doesn't work on windows. It should be able to > > be editied with an online editor so there are no requirements on the > > client except a browser. > > > > Cheers > > Lex > > > >> > >> -Dan > >> > >> -- > >> Dan Allen > >> Principal Software Engineer, Red Hat | Author of Seam in Action > >> Registered Linux User #231597 > >> > >> http://google.com/profiles/dan.j.allen > >> http://mojavelinux.com > >> http://mojavelinux.com/seaminaction > >> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "asciidoc" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to > >> [email protected]<javascript:>. > > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> [email protected] <javascript:>. > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/asciidoc?hl=en. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "asciidoc" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. 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