OK, people, please clam down ...

I suggest we putting our efforts on solving real issues but arguing.  Today I 
heard that Faré just bought his first Mac computer, I believe he will take care 
of RMCL better than before.

I understand that Faré are trying to make ASDF2 perfect: supporting all 
available CL platforms so that other ASDF-based packages could have chances to 
run.  From my personal view in these months, maybe ASDF2 grows too fast, as a 
build tool it grows even faster than other CL packages which do real world 
function.  As a common Lisper using CL on work and maintain some CL packages, I 
think I just need:

 1) asdf:*central-registry* works the same way as before,
 2) Quicklisp works,
 3) All my previous written valid .asd files won't fail.

other things, I don't care. I think Faré is a very good Lisp programmer, I can 
see this from ASDF2 source code, I hope Faré could help us (MCL users) solving 
necessary issues which is caused by ASDF2 development when Faré don't have a 
Mac, and no doubt all MCL users will say thanks. And I think every ASDF user 
should want it stable than feature-rich, maybe Faré could consider this option 
someway in the future.

Best Regards,

Chun Tian (binghe)

>> Your reactions to bug reports are either null, or very discouraging.
>> 
> Which bug did you report that I didn't address?
> There are archives, please show me.
> 
>> I usually only get fixes or workarounds by people other than you.
>> 
> I'm glad you're getting support from others. Unhappily,
> you won't get any from me unless you communicate with me.
> 
>> Instead I repeatedly hear from you that either I am doing something wrong, 
>> or that what I'm trying to do is deprecated, or legacy, or old-style, or 
>> whatever.
>> 
> I never said anything was "deprecated".
> central-registry and logical pathnames are very much supported.
> I did say legacy and old-style indeed.
> Which means they continue to work as they always did.
> Robert Goldman and I even took pains to maintain and extend
> the documentation on how to use them, to include
> common usage, known pitfalls and some advanced features.
> While it's not a lot of documentation, it's still more than was before.
> 
>> Or you don't react at all (like with my _bug_ report that the documentation 
>> is misleading, which is the main reason why I switched from a working setup 
>> to a setup that doesn't work). Or like here, you react by saying that I'm 
>> not reporting problems properly, or not early enough, or whatever.
>> 
> As far as I can tell, the reason your setup didn't work
> is because the MCL support had bitrotten.
> My excuse for that is that I never had a chance to use a Mac.
> As far as I know, I fixed all the issues I am aware of
> — based on binghe's bug reports.
> I never had a clear bug report from you.
> 
>> I don't get such reactions from any other library/tool maintainer!
>> 
> My apologies. I obviously fail to communicate with you.
> But communication is a two-way thing.
> Maybe you can come down to my level.
> 
>> You either support a feature, or you don't. Don't do this mixed bag of "I 
>> support it, but you're a loser if you use it."
>> 
> I support central-registry and logical pathnames within my limits.
> I didn't touch the legacy configuration system.
> It's working, it's stable. You can keep using it as you always did before.
> It takes priority over the new source-registry.
> If you're using these features, though,
> you're not a loser: you're an advanced user;
> your curse is that you have to take responsibility for that,
> because lesser people such as I are unable to do it.
> You already know more about logical pathnames than I do;
> I'm ready to learn from you everything you'll tell me
> about how to do things right about them.
> 
>> The main reason why I'm having problems with ASDF 2.x is because it's 
>> alpha-quality software at best (you're still trying to figure out some very 
>> basic concepts, it seems to me), yet you don't even call it beta quality, 
>> but instead choose to call it 2.x, push it down everybody's throats, and 
>> turn a whole community into alpha testers who didn't volunteer to be guinea 
>> pigs in the first place.
>> 
> I called it 2.x to make it clear that there had been significant changes
> since the first 1.x series, and that while compatibility is our goal,
> we warn that there might be breakage in a few
> formerly underspecified or non-portable corner cases,
> or on platforms we don't have access to.
> 
> I indeed am trying to "push it down everybody's throats",
> in other words I aim to satisfy everyone enough that they will adopt it.
> I apologize if you're experiencing trouble and encourage you
> to pick whichever legacy version you're more satisfied with,
> if you're experiencing issues with mine.
> I certainly didn't install ASDF 2.x on your machine.
> Why did you even try to upgrade?
> If you needed a bug fix or new feature, then maybe it's not totally useless.
> If you just wanted to test it, then I thank you for testing:
> you were the very first to try ASDF 2 on RMCL.
> 
>> I have used ASDF 1.x and it's central registry approach for years in almost 
>> all CL implementations available, and I have never encountered any problems 
>> with it. I have also used logical pathnames to some limited extent years 
>> ago, and my experience with those weren't even remotely as bad as with ASDF 
>> 2.x. When using them recently, for a few weeks they actually made something 
>> work that ASDF 2.x claims to support, but actually didn't really, until ASDF 
>> screwed it up again.
>> 
> My only claim of support is that I will fix bugs that are reported to me.
> I can't fix bugs that are not reported.
> If you have an unusual setup, you have to explain
> what you are doing, what is breaking, and how it is breaking.
> I'm not going to remotely hack into your computer at night
> to find out whether things are wrong and why.
> I unhappily can't run batteries of test
> on an implementation I don't have access to.
> 
> That said, yes, it might be useful to write unit tests
> for the support of logical pathnames by the source-registry.
> Patches welcome.
> 
>> I'm not sure how to proceed from here. Communicating with you and reporting 
>> bugs doesn't seem to buy anything. If I had the choice I would just drop 
>> ASDF 2.x and go back to ASDF 1.x, but this doesn't seem a viable option. Or 
>> is it?
>> 
> I don't see why you believe that ASDF 1.x isn't a viable option.
> Certainly, if you believe that ASDF 2.x doesn't bring anything valuable,
> you should stick to ASDF 1.x. Of course, I won't be able to provide
> support for it, but that shouldn't be an issue for you,
> since my support seems of little value to you.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> —♯ƒ • François-René ÐVB Rideau •Reflection&Cybernethics• http://fare.tunes.org
> Fascists divide in two categories: the fascists and the anti-fascists
>       — Ennio Flaiano
> 
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