Re: [Assam] Fwd: Study on Assam -Centre for PolicyAlternatives--Addedum

Sat, 05 Nov 2005 01:34:09 -0800

<<<<Is the the great Assamese plan for independence?
 
Independence was never won on the basis of what 'should be'.
Independence must be gained by fighting on the basis of what 'would be'.
I don't see that great Assamese fight for independence nor the fight to get more 'bribe'
Is this a Hobo Diok plan?.
RB .>>>>
Did you mean" ----By fighting for what should be?"
Watch this space -as the Adman says
mm



From: "Barua25" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "mc mahant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
CC: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Assam] Fwd: Study on Assam -Centre for PolicyAlternatives--Addedum
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 23:21:35 -0600

So it make sense to demand more 'bribe' from the Centre so that they will be forced to give up. My question is why Mr Gogoi ministry is not demanding more ;bribe'. The Report points to the fact that money to Assam is coming far less than to other NE States.
 
My question is what we should do:
(1) Demand more money (at least four times than present) throwing the Report at the face of Manmohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi, or
(2) Do nothing dreaming the Assamese dream that Centre will, very soon, out of frustration, give Assam independence any way.on a golden plate because
     (a) Some Assamese feel it is better for India to let Assam go;
     (b) Some Assamese feel that Assam was never ruled by India.and should not rule now.
     (c) Some Assamese feel that India has failed to govern Assam anyway and therfore should hand over   Assam to Assamese now.
 
Is the the great Assamese plan for independence?
 
Independence was never won on the basis of what 'should be'.
Independence must be gained by fighting on the basis of what 'would be'.
I don't see that great Assamese fight for independence nor the fight to get more 'bribe'
Is this a Hobo Diok plan?.
RB .
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: mc mahant
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Fwd: Study on Assam -Centre for PolicyAlternatives--Addedum

>>>>>You failed to explain why the GOI does not want to bribe Assam which is also a state in the NE>>>>>

Simple, Gentlemen,

Easy to Do that for 5Lakh Mizos  and 15 Lakh Nagalanders, Arunachal of course :to Justify/feed the huge military presence. Manipur is a headche--nothing happens in spite of huge pumping ins -they stubbornly stick to their "Want pre-1949 kingdom back. "

Assam was split many a time- lastly Bodoland and the 'Autonomous'  district councils. Still unmanageable.     3 crores are difficult to bribe with visible benefits to the BRIBED. Ever Economist in India is throwing up hands at inflation-and the root cauuse is Waste due to"Bribing". Delhi should want a Settlement with Assam FAST. Next Floods not far away. Heard of Task Force?

mm



From: Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Rajen Barua" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Assam] Fwd: Study on Assam -Centre for Policy Alternatives--Addedum
Date: Thu, 3 Nov 2005 11:02:52 -0600

At 10:13 AM -0600 11/3/05, Rajen Barua wrote:
 *** You are taking things personally.
 
I am not. It is NOT about YOU. Nor is it about me.


**** Okkkay! I believe you ( hint, hint :-))! You just threw me off with those declarations about not believing ME, not trusting ME and stuff like that, as if
" moi twmar paani-khowa pukhurit bih dhalisilw" .


 It is about your false ideology with the belief that rest of the NE States progress is due to GOI bribing these states.
You failed to explain why the GOI does not want to bribe Assam which is also a state in the NE


*** Rajen, I don't understand why you keep badgering me for getting into things that makes you angry later.

But since you insists, here it is:

I NEVER suggested that India does not BRIBE Assam. It has been doing just that.
Where do you think all the monies that Dilli does send to Assam? Is it going for public health-care improvements? Is it improving primary schooling? Is it showing up in infrastructure development? Is it reducing infant mortality?

But your trump card, the ace of your argument here is that the other NE states are using it effectively to show better stats. while Assam is not. And why is that?

Because it is the Assamese people's own damn fault--that they are crooks, incompetents and lazy-ass bums. Right? That is your big argument isn't it ? Surely you told us that any number of times.

And you know what? I can offer my own opinion of your opinion here, but knowing how you have been reacting of late, I would just as soon not. So why don't you take a deep breath and see if you can get to the bottom of it by yourself. Surely you heard explanations of it here before, any number of times.

Finally, the improved stats on the OTHER NE states on the issues you cite, I have no reason to doubt or question their validity. But WHAT do those stats. really MEAN?

        * Do you know what the BASE-LINE used for computing those gains is?
        * Are they gains, the 'delta', over a pan-Indian benchmark, or is it
        a delta over its own baseline of a certain date?
        * If it is the latter for example, do you not realize that a
        society where infant mortality used to be very high, a slight
        reduction in number could register as a very high percentage gain.
        But does it give us a useful picture that we could use to compare
        and judge its real value?

        * There are other issues. I am no statistician to delve into these.
        But the issue is WHAT do these numbers REALLY MEAN?

If you don't know the answers above, how could you put your faith behind the stats. to judge the relative efficacy of the bribery between Assam and the other NE states to declare

>Then we can really declare that the people of Assam are the worst in the entire North East >region, worst then Nagaland, Mizoram, Meghalaya, Arunachal Pradesh etc. ?

Not that it would hurt my feelings if it indeed is so. But if you don't know the  meaning of the stats. how could you make the judgement you did.

You tell us.


c
       










And since you did not, you have simply exposed the hollowness of your false ideaology, but even then decided not to admit that your ideaology was and the Report was right. 
Once we come to that position, then we find there is no point in discussing with you who is trying to pose as the spokesman of ULFA or PCG and bulley e people to accept wrong ideology applying word skills of the English language.
Bye Bye, there are better ways of wasting time.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: Chan Mahanta
To: Barua25 ; [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Fwd: Study on Assam -Centre for Policy Alternatives--Addedum

Rajen:

Important things first:

>Let us not proceed any further. I donot have time to indulge in these endless and meaningless >dabates. Let us agree that I donot trust you, I donot understand and and I dnot believe you.  >Your words sounds too strange to me specially when you try to speak for the ULFA or the PCG.

*** You are taking things personally. It is NOT about YOU. Nor is it about me. I thought you understood the difference long ago. And if I remember correctly, you also affirmed that you do not take these things personally.

But on a lighter note:

*** About your NOT trusting me: That is YOUR prerogative. It has always been so. You don't need my permission for that. Why do I need to agree to that? And do you really think I will sign on the dotted line giving you the freedom not to trust me, so that you can go about telling people that you don't trust Chandan, because look, right here, he has signed this release giving me all the rights not to ? I maybe a fool Rajen, but not stupid. I don't know!

*** Don't feel bad that you don't understand me. I am sure you are not alone on that. But on the good side, it is really a self-created problem. An attitudinal one. If you want to understand it, you will get it instantly.

>Looks like we will have use plain English:

Are you implying that my English is too hard to comprehend? If so, why don't you just say so? I can write in Oxomiya too you know? Just takes it longer. And my command of the language has become somewhat rusty.

But it does hurt to hear that you don't believe me. Only mitigating factor here is that I am not sure I said anything that requires BELIEVING or even TRUSTing. Nobody has to take my word for anything. I have explained it so many times, I am getting to be like a broken record.  So I am hoping that you said that out of frustration, out of exasperation. It is like telling someone you love ( no, no, I am not suggesting you have to LOVE me) that you don't in the heat of an argument or a fight. Anyway, if that is your final decision, I will have to remain condemned to endure it. My loss. What else can I say?

>You also may sim,ilar feelings towards me, I don't know.

*** Perish the thought. I have no such need or intent. I trust you. I believe you. I even understand you. Only problem is that some of your arguments are, shall we say, untenable? And many of your opinions and verdicts are kind of poorly deliberated--particularly re: Assam, ULFA, Indian governance etc. The uncharitable might actually characterize some of them with the k-j phrase, if you know what I mean.


>Let us not proceed any further.

*** Come now Rajen. Again you are dumping on me by insinuating that it is my fault, that I am dragging you into saying and proposing things that you are having trouble defending. Isn't that the real problem here?

I do  try to share my fellow men's burdens, when I can. But I can bear only so much Rajen. You know I am a little fella, my back is not all that strong.  And if that is not bad enough, I am old and bald too. Kiman aaru aanor bwza korhiam he', tumiei kwaswn?


>I think it  is better we simply agree that we donot and never will agree. Let us live and let live.

*** I can read your exasperation again Rajen. But I never promised you ( or anyone else) that 'rose garden, along with the sunshine', remember? And as much as I feel flattered for seeking it, you really don't need my permission to disagree. Seriously!Trust me ( oops--bad choice of words here perhaps?), I won't write a cement shoes or knee-cap removal contract on you with ULFA hit-squads. I  know I am baaad, but not that bad!



Finally, WHY do you give me these opportunities to lead into your commentaries like this Rajen? You know I am a 'bih-guti'( literally  'poison-seed'), and cannot resist pulling the chimes of those with extra-short fuses. But you HAVE to keep doing that, don't you? You need to check that urge for getting frustrated so easily. There is more to life than Assam Net debates.

You take care now. And don't make me send Tilok Daktor after you. That is a definite threat! If you don't believe me, just ask our lovable 'seraa-ppagol' Dr. Brain Deka.  See what Tilok Daktor has done to him? That will be REALLY bad!

c :-)






At 11:27 PM -0600 11/2/05, Barua25 wrote:
Looks like we will have use plain English:
(1) I said that people of Assam must be worse than the rest of the states in NE because they are getting more from GOI and are progressing more in all aspects of the report: Health, Income, reducing infact morality, and all.

(2) You basically replied that I was not trying to analyse the report and understand the issue why the rests of the NE states seems to be advancing compared to Assam (this also implies that you actually donot believe the report). You explained that said it was because it was an integral part of the grand Indian scheme to keep the NE discombobulated and fractured. by bribing, the quintessentially Indian virtue.
(3) Then I asked you, if that was so, what was wrong with Assam? Why Assam has been left out by GOI from receiving some bribe? Why the GOI does not want to bribe Assam which is also a state in the NE? Because if Assam is left out, you theory "the GOI is  it was an integral part of the grand Indian scheme to keep the NE discombobulated and fractured. by bribing  the quintessentially Indian virtue." must be wrong.

 
And you did not answer and was trying to slip.
Whatever it was, you failed to explain why GOI is not bribing Assam so that Assam can also have a false increase of per capita income?

 
Chandan:
Let us not proceed any further. I donot have time to indulge in these endless and meaningless dabates. Let us agree that I donot trust you, I donot understand and and I dnot believe you.  Your words sounds too strange to me specially when you try to speak for the ULFA or the PCG.

 
You also may sim,ilar feelings towards me, I don't know.

 
I think it  is better we simply agree that we donot and never will agree. Let us live and let live.

----- Original Message -----
From: Chan Mahanta
To: Rajen Barua ; [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 9:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] Fwd: Study on Assam -Centre for Policy Alternatives--Addedum

At 5:44 PM -0600 11/2/05, Rajen Barua wrote:
>It is an integral part of the grand Indian scheme to keep the NE discombobulated and fractured. By bribing, the quintessentially Indian virtue

 
The million dollar question is, why the GOI decided to bribe everbody else in the NE and not Assam.


**** That does not answer the question I raised. HOW exactly do you see Nagaland or Arunachal or Meghalaya or Mizoram generating what raises their per capita productivity? It is a pretty simple thing to analyze you know?

Also there is a pretty darn simple way to understand why Assam's per capita number is low compared to the rest of the NE states. But I won't give you the answer. Let us see if you are able to put your thinking cap on and figure that out all by yourself.

You live with your theory (whatever that is) and we live with ours.
*** That is your choice. I don't live with theories. I try to understand what these stats. mean. I don't take them at face value. I have an ability to reason and I use it.

I am not endowed with any more ability or intellect than Rajen Barua is. But the difference lies in one's willingness to USE what we are endowed with.

>How about that live and let live policy?

 


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