Ram:
>IMHO: No one should have the 'right' to justify violence from ANY quarter.
*** IMNSHO, if I am being violated, and I believe unjustly, then *I*
shall not relinquish MY right to justify MY reacting violently, if
there is no other recourse.
Wouldn't you? Correct me if I am wrong, but I would hazard a guess
you wouldn't either.
I do however know there indeed was a Mahatma Gandhi, and there
likely was a Gautam Buddha. Thus I will concede that there might
lurk amongst, unbeknownst to the ignorant and the uninformed like
yours truly,those who are of a higher order and indeed like M K
Gandhi or Gautam Buddha, who could have earned the RIGHT to preach
">No one should have the 'right' to justify violence from ANY
quarter."
But I ain't buying that, pending some credible proof, merely because
you so assert :-).
>The PCG, if I understand correct, is 'spokesperson' for Assam first,--
*** I don't know what the PCG's mandate is. My info is NO MORE than
yours, even though I do have connections thru which I can get more
info, should I find it necessary to pursue that :-). It is just that
I had no such need. And on that basis, I can, from being an ordinary
observer, albeit a sympathetic one to ULFAs cause, and one with a
relatively clear mind, say that :
*** The PCG does NOT represent those who oppose ULFA's existence,or
its mission. If it did, ULFA wouldn't have selected them to go
speak on their behalf. That would be elementary, wouldn't you think?
*** It would appear from all indications the PCG does represent
the ULFA,its supporters, sympathizers and even those others who
do not look at ULFA as the enemy but may or may not support its
mission fully or even partially.
*** Therefore your assertion or understanding "--is 'spokesperson'
for Assam first" could be faulty, depending upon your definition of
"Assam". Again, a language problem at best, or an attitudinal
one at worst.
> After all, who is he to demand answers from the big guys?
*** Again, it depends upon WHO the 'big guys' are. To the letter
writer, it is definitely NOT those ignorant fools , that "--large
section of the people who perceive a glimmer of hope" It must be
those he considers EQUALS or are higher than himself-perhaps certain
NRAS. Certainly not ULFA, certainly not the PCG, certainly not those
fools who seem to perceive hope on PCG's efforts.
Do you see it otherwise? Do enlighten us if you do :-).
> >To appear credible (and we all want that they should), the PCG ought
>to be able to condemn violence from either side.
*** It is always so very convenient to assign GUILT and
responsibility to all EQUALLY. But it does not sell Ram. All are NOT
equally guilty in this asymmetrical warfare. I would like to think
you know who is disproportionately more responsible, more guilty of
the violence that you so abhor! But if you are having trouble again,
do let me know--I will try to help sort it out :-).
> >If they are not morally able to do that, then it might be much better
>for them for them from commenting anything on violence -
*** I know, I know, Ram. It is frustrating to see oneself as being
inconsequential here isn't it? But you can't have it both ways.
Know what I mean:-) ?
c-da
At 2:01 PM -0600 1/9/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>C'da,
>
>> That damned English language affliction acting up again! Sorry to
>>see you got infected too :-).
>
>I sure has gotten to me. I realize, I haven't been able to express
>what I wanted clearly. Either pertinent questions I posed were ignored
>or simply not understood. I apologize for the miss-steps.
>
>> *** If he is, then why challenge PCG's 'locus standi'- play inquisitor? ...
>
>Ah! the poor soul. After all, who is he to demand answers from the big
>guys? The way he has been thrashed around, one can expect that there
>only a FEW people who actually agree with what he is saying. He must
>be having some agenda, don't you think?
>
>But, it is not about him. This process is about all of us and is
>certainly bigger than Goswami, the PCG, the ULFA, the GOI or the GOA.
>We all stand to win or loose with whatever decision is made in the end
>about Assam.
>
>The PCG, if I understand correct, is 'spokesperson' for Assam first,
>and ULFA or GOI later. Am I correct in this assumption? Or is it just
>the 'spokesperson' for ULFA? And by inference, ULFA is Assam?
>
>To appear credible (and we all want that they should), the PCG ought
>to be able to condemn violence from either side.
>
>If they are not morally able to do that, then it might be much better
>for them for them from commenting anything on violence - whether from
>the GOI or from ULFA.
>They should just confine themselves with the modalities of discussions.
>
>IMHO: No one should have the 'right' to justify violence from ANY quarter.
>
>--Ram
>
>
>On 1/9/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Ram:
>>
>>
>> >Doesn't that show the writer is at least trying to be fair?
>>
>>
>> *** If he is, then why challenge PCG's 'locus standi'- play
>>inquisitor? If a LARGE SECTION of the PEOPLE do perceive a glimmer
>>of hope, are they fools to perceive it if they did NOT also accept
>>PCG as having any 'locus standi'?
>>
>>
>> What the writer is attempting to assert, is HIS own perception,
>>that the PCG has no 'locus standi'. That he represents the people
>>of Assam BETTER than all those who DO accept PCG's locus standi.
>>
>>
>> And thus, he also is asserting that ULFA does not count, because
>>ULFA has clearly re-affirmed, time and again, its support for the
>>PCG to carry its message to the GoI in setting up the political
>>negotiation grounds.
>>
>>
>> It is people like this letter writer, who go about blabbering how
>>ULFA does not count,like some of our own NRA luminaries, who are
>>spaced out and are in denial.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >The gentleman just knows some English,
>>
>>
>> *** I am surprised you think that way Ram. To me he seems
>>thoroughly confused, contradicting himself, attempting to wear that
>>halo of being the true representative of the people of Assam, while
>>being under the delusion that ULFA does not count.
>>
>>
>> That damned English language affliction acting up again! Sorry to
>>see you got infected too :-).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >and has the ability to get his letter published,
>>
>>
>> *** Heh-heh! Says a lot, considering the QUALITY of all those
>>letters they DO publish, doesn't it ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 12:32 PM -0600 1/9/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>> C'da,
>>
>> Are you suggesting that the PCG condem the GOI/GOA violence, but
>>in the same breath condone (or overlook) violence from the ULFA?
>> The two cases of people involved, that Goswami illustrated,
>>probably have little or nothing to with GOI/GOA. They probably had
>>money and the ULFA wants its share - or else. Thats exactly what
>>happens these days.
> >
>> And we expect global/national investments from private individuals.
>> Apollo Hospitals wanted to setup a huge hospital unit at North
>>Guwahati - they even acquired land. But the ULFA (who is looking
>>after the best interests of the Assamese) wanted a big chunk of
>>money or else. The Hospital chain just withdrew and have decided to
>>set up shop elsewhere. So Assamese cancer patients still make their
>>treks to hospitals in other states or to the States (in some
>>cases).
>>
> > "A large section of the people perceive a glimmer of hope and
>feel that the PCG is the ideal interface between the Government and
>ULFA to initiate a sustainable peace pact through negotiations.
>Indeed, the expectancy of a cessation of hostilities can almost be
>felt in the air. "
>>
>>
>> *** And what is the writer's OWN . "locus standi" to question the
>>"--large section of the people--" ?
>>
>> Doesn't that show the writer is at least trying to be fair? The
>>key word in the above is "perceive". Alas, perception is just that.
>>
>> And why should we worry about the writer's locus standi. The
>>gentleman just knows some English, and has the ability to get his
>>letter published, and in all probablity has Assam's interests at
>>heart.
>>
>> Does he need to rub shoulders with the big & mighty in Assam, so
>>that the PCG may (if it pleases them) favor a response?
> >
>> What gives, C'da. If the PCG does ignore commoners like Goswami,
>>whom do they actually represent? Whose interests are they working
>>for? The Assamese or the ULFA?. At least, they could have called
>>his 'bluff'.
>>
>> --Ram
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/9/06, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Consider the PCG. Does it have any locus-standi? Where does it
>>figure in so far as ULFA's campaign of violence and extortion is
>>concerned? If it can fervently call for the cessation of Army
>>operations, can it not call for the ULFA to stop its agenda of
>>murder and mayhem? "
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *** Heh-heh Ram! That is an argument?
>>
>>
>> First off, the writer can't make up his mind about what his gripe
>>is: did he not start with the widely accepted premise:
>>
>>
>> "A large section of the people perceive a glimmer of hope and feel
>>that the PCG is the ideal interface between the Government and ULFA
>>to initiate a sustainable peace pact through negotiations. Indeed,
>>the expectancy of a cessation of hostilities can almost be felt in
>>the air. "
>>
>>
>> *** And what is the writer's OWN . "locus standi" to question the
>>"--large section of the people--" ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ***That is pretty serious charge by Goswami against the PCG,
>>wouldn't you say?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone can make any charge or play inquisitor. But unless the inquisitor has
>> a better plan of his own, or unless he has some special 'locus-standi'
>> ( no--being a legend in one's own mind doesn't qualify) it does
>>not fly. Just like the self-impressed Assam net inquisitors.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >My take is that the PCG must at least have the guts to condemn
>>violence be it >from the security forces (GOI/GOA) or from the ULFA.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **** ULFA did not come into being like mealy-mouthed NRA spouting
>>'adha-khunda' 'demokrasy' and pithy platitudes about non-violence.
>>They took to arms as a LAST RESORT, against Indian oppression, :
>>economic, political, cultural and physical, including opening fire
>>upon unarmed citizenry expressing democratic opposition to Indian
>>exploitation.
>>
>>
>> Remember that Ram?
>>
>>
>> Taking to arms against the might of the world's third largest
>>standing requires ****s and had risks. ULFA has paid the price,
>>with their lives. They put their lives where their mouths are, just
>>like those thousands of innocent Assamese have, unlike clueless NRA
>>s demanding PCG's 'locus standi' and expecting them to denounce
>>ULFA's violence.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >PCG must at least have the guts --"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *** Look who is talking -- about showing guts :-)!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 11:38 AM -0600 1/9/06, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>>
>> Plan? Thats a big surprise!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> That is the first time (about time) that we are hearing about any
>>plan - maybe its a secret, and will be surprise 'gift' for the
>>Assamese upon independence. In the mean time we are all on pins &
>>needles, supposedly.
> >
>>
>>
>> My suggestion, Barua, dont hold your breath.
>>
>>
>>
>> >Does PCG has a plan?
>>
>>
>>
>> The PCG? Well, well, well - they are NOT even able give a fitting
>>response (or any response) to someone accusing them in public in
>>the AT.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Consider the PCG. Does it have any locus-standi? Where does it
>>figure in so far as ULFA's campaign of violence and extortion is
>>concerned? If it can fervently call for the cessation of Army
>>operations, can it not call for the ULFA to stop its agenda of
>>murder and mayhem? "
>>
>>
>>
>> Would you say they are uncalled for or are not even worth a
>>response? That is pretty serious charge by Goswami against the PCG,
>>wouldn't you say?
>>
>>
>>
>> My take is that the PCG must at least have the guts to condemn
>>violence be it from the security forces (GOI/GOA) or from the ULFA.
>>
>> Violence is violence, and the PCG has the moral responsibility to
>>condem violence, not condone it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1/9/06, Rajen Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
>>
>> *** At least they have a plan,
>>
>>
>>
>> That is a news to many og us. Why they donot lay out their plan?
>>
>> At least we are laying out our plan for people to see and
>>criticize in a democratic manner.
>>
>>
>>
>> >to those who have been fighting for independence.
> >
>>
>>
>> That is our question. They are fighting no doubt, but what they
>>are fighting for?
>>
>> They are fighting for 'independence' or they are fighting
>>'thinking for indepnedence'?
>>
>> Those are two very different questions.
>>
>> Frankly speaking I don't see any fight for independence.
>>
>> Fight for independence must have a plan.
>>
>> Does PCG has a plan?
>>
>> RB
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Chan Mahanta
>>
>> To: Rajen Barua ; [email protected]
>>
>> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 10:37 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] DEMOCRACY HARMING INDIA: LYNGDOH
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >Looking at your logic for Independence Assam, I have exactly the
>>same feeling.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *** At least they have a plan, one derived from ordinary but clear
>>reasoning . And they have been giving their lives to realize their
>>goal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> But look at you self-impressed, idle detractors and nay-sayers ,
>>who cannot even articulate a barely logical plan of your own, while
>>never ceasing to talk-down to those who have been fighting for
>>independence.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 10:21 AM -0600 1/9/06, Rajen Barua wrote:
>>
>> >I have to confess that Assam is in for a very long time of
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >stumbling around in the fog, mired in very fuzzy logic.
>>
>>
>>
>> I share your thought.
>>
>> Looking at your logic for Independence Assam, I have exactly the
>>same feeling.
>>
>> RB
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Chan Mahanta
>>
>> To: Barua25 ; [email protected]
>>
>> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 9:39 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] DEMOCRACY HARMING INDIA: LYNGDOH
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Rajen:
>>
>>
>>
>> Reading you and Himen-da, two highly trained engineers, a couple
>>of Assam's best, coming up with the kind of STUFF you have been for
>>ASSAMS's 'uddhar' ( Assam's redemption), I have to confess that
>>Assam is in for a very long time of
>>
>> stumbling around in the fog, mired in very fuzzy logic.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> c
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 5:05 PM -0600 1/7/06, Barua25 wrote:
>>
>> >where do you stand with your contributions to the positive
>>changes, which I gather even if only indirectly, that you too would
>>like to see in Assam?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Shall I say, My life is my words.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> As a Buddhist, I think I am like Dalai Lama.
>>
>> What is the hurry for independence of Tibet?
>>
>> If not in this life, we will get it in next life, or the next....
>>
>> Why is this hurry, my brother?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> what matters is your freedom....
>>
>> what matters is your love of learning ...
>>
>> what matters is your love of books...
>>
>> what matters is your love of arts...
>>
>> what matters is your pursuit of happiness ...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I think as an Assamese, normally I am a prefect Hobo Diok type.
>>
>> But sometimes I feel like Upai Nai and would like to stand tall...
>>
>> In fact you may not see me, but I think I am standing.
>>
> > And from where I am standing now, if you don't see me standing,
>>
>> then I think I need to stand a bit taller or take stool to stand on.
>>
>> Thanks for the feed back in the form of the question.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> RB
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Chan Mahanta
>>
>> To: Barua25 ; [email protected]
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:08 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] DEMOCRACY HARMING INDIA: LYNGDOH
>>
>>
>>
>> >In that, my question is where do you stand with your
>>contributions to the >positive changes, which I gather even if only
>>indirectly, that you too would >like to see in Assam?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *** Why don't you answer the question related to the topic?
>>
>>
>>
>> But it is not hard to tell why you would not.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 2:36 PM -0600 1/7/06, Barua25 wrote:
>>
>> >Philosophy is a fascinating subject. I don't denigrate it. But
>>right this instance we have little use for it in these discussions.
>>"Jwre >puri haat paalehi" -- time to do something wouldn't you
>>think?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry for pulling something from recent past. But is not it
>>exactly this type thinking which lead to a world where books are
>>not necessary at all, where people have better things to do than to
>>read a book of Philosophy or a book of Religion and poetry for that
>>matter. Is not this type of thinking lead us to world where books
>>may be controlled or banned altogether and we may live in a world
>>as depicted in the book (and the film) "Fahrenheit 451"?
> >
>>
>>
>>
>> Is that what will happen in your future Assam?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Our present time is, if we think it over, inspite of the
>>insurgency and uncertainty, is actually not very different from the
>>Assam of the time of Sri Xong.kordew . He lived in an Assam when
>>the Ahoms were in power, his own son had been killed by the Ahom
>>kings, he himself had to flee to the Koch kingdom for his own life.
>>He could have very well said like you said:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Philosophy is a fascinating subject. I don't denigrate it. But
>>right this instance we have little use for it in these discussions.
>>"Jwre puri haat paalehi" -- time to do something wouldn't you
>>think?"
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> But thank God, Xong.kordew did not. At the threat of his own life
>>from many sides, Xong.kordew studied the Wthoro Purans of Hindus
>>and came out as a winner with the essence of Religion for Assam.
>>We are really glad that books and learning were not banned in his
>>times.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> May we wish that we will have a future not like "Fahrenheit 451"
>>for Assam but people will have full freedom to anything they like ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> RB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>
>> From: Chan Mahanta
>>
>> To: Barua25 ; [email protected]
>>
>> Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 7:34 AM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Assam] DEMOCRACY HARMING INDIA: LYNGDOH
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not seeking your predictions here Rajen. Regardless of the
>>prescience of amateur or even professional seers, they are at best
>>idle speculations.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Positive change can come only with participation and involvement
>>of those who know better. In that, my question is where do you
>>stand with your contributions to the positive changes, which I
>>gather even if only indirectly, that you too would like to see in
>>Assam?
>>
>>
>>
>> And what would those changes be that you would like to see? How
>>do you see a process for such changes put in place and moved
>>forward?
>>
>>
>>
>> Philosophy is a fascinating subject. I don't denigrate it. But
>>right this instance we have little use for it in these discussions.
>>"Jwre puri haat paalehi" -- time to do something wouldn't you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> c
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> assam mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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