Here are a few questions. Hopefully you guys can answer: 1. Is Varnashrama Dharma really the original name of Hinduism or is it Sanatana Dharma?
2. Does Varnashrama Dharma refer specifically to and only to the 4 castes and the 4 ashramas - or does it posit on a bigger spiritual and philosophical canvas? 2. Varna finds its mention in the Rig Veda all right. But do the Vedas themselves specify that the Varnas are defined by birth? Or did it come much later with the likes of Manu? And if the Varna system were not to be defined by birth but by someone's desire, will and action, would it change anything in the way we percieve things about Hinduism? 3. Does Hinduism (or if I may use the word Sanatana Dharma) specify clearly to the infallibility of the Vedas themselves in their entirety? Or is a Hindu allowed to reject certain tenets? 4. Does Hinduism (and do Hindus) leave the interpretation of the Vedas (or their religion itself) to be changed over time or by different scholars? 5. Is Varna the central tenet of Hinduism - more specifically, is it specified anywhere in the Vedas that a Hindu MUST believe in Varna? Even more specifically, exactly how many shlokas (or what percentage) of the Rig Veda mention Varna? 6. Since Islam has always had a bloody history right from the time of when the transition of leadership was to happen from the prophet to his disciples and since it has enough mention in the Koran of killing of kufrs, should it be called "Unsalaam" or something and should Muslims reject Islam in its entirety? 7. Should Christianity with its reference to slavery, keep continuing to celebrate slavery - after all it was ONE of the tenets expounded in the Bible and therefore you cannot ignore it and ipso facto, a Christian must reject the Bible in its entirety? 8. Should Atheism find its glory in every Godless communist despot (including Pol Pot) that lead the most wanton killings in modern times and the rationale they gave to those killings? Finally the last 2 questions: 9. Why is the option of plainly denying the existence of "all these aspects" the only other way? Did any one of us really grow up with our parents teaching us the gunas of the Varnashrama system? Or did we really look forward to the excitement of Durga Puja and other religious/social events? Has anyone denied my right to a Hindu religion when I married a Brahmin woman? More so, why would not a re-interpretation of the meaning of Varna (I assume no one has problems with Ashrama) be in the order of things? Or even the rejection of it? After all there were enough reformers within the Hindu fold (and even Buddha wasn't exactly outside the Hindu fold in his life, was he?) who had enough following through the times to change things. 10. And why should we forget what our forefathers did to our religion? Why should our kids not learn that there was for the longest time in history (and still is) such gross injustice within our religious and social order that things needed to change? And why would they not accept it as a part of the bad they inherit in as much as all the good they could? If such were the logic then the Christians and Muslims would have an even tougher time defending their religions to their children, wouldn't they? --- Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >The other option is to gloss over and plainly deny > the existence of > >all these >aspects (as many on this net do) and > then to march > >forward with a very >selective view of Hinduism > that is in > >consonance with modern society and >liberal values. > The trouble with > >this approach is that in all honesty, you >cannot > be very sure of > >what it is you are clutching on to & therefore, in > the >long run, > >are bound to run into certain contradictions - > perhaps as > >your >children question you.... > > > *** Well said Santanu. But I am not sure the > inquisitive children are > enough of a deterrence to that attempt at living in > a make-believe > world. I have seen 'children' of those who would > choose to live in a > delusion, raised, indoctrinated and molded in the > image of their > parents :-), who grow up perfectly willing to > perpetuate the myths > and the delusions. > > > > > > > > > > At 9:57 PM -0600 3/26/06, Roy, Santanu wrote: > >Saurav, > > > >Thanks for your knowledgeable note. > > > >Two observations: > > > >1. There are probably quite a few historical > instances where castes > >have been fostered within a non-Aryan jati or > community that has > >come into contact with mainstream Hinduism at a > late stage. Indeed, > >the process by which an outside jati enters into > mainstream Hindu > >society must logically consist of at least two > social processes. > >First, the way the existing mainstream society - > the upper castes - > >in particular, view the community in question - an > exogenous aspect. > >Second, the way the jati views itself and reshapes > & redefines its > >own social stratification using the adopted > language and mirrors of > >mainstream Hindu society -an endogenous aspect. > Indeed, these two > >processes need not be congruent. The relics of > these processes are > >found in several low caste untouchable communities > that have their > >own "Brahmins". To the mainstream outsider, they > are all > >untouchable, but to the insider there is a caste > system within - a > >microcosm of the society that lies above them. A > similar stru! > > cture is also observed with respect to many > tribes prior to the > >importing of Brahmins from mainstream society. > > > >2. The varna system, like many other aspects of > Hindu society, is in > >fundamental contradiction with modern society. The > question in my > >mind is not whether Hinduism can be reformed. The > real question is > >how will Hindus resolve these contradictions > between what they ought > >to hold sacred and the needs of actual material > life in today's > >society. > > > >One option is to stand by the varna system and all > other traditional > >mores, to oppose liberal western values and in > effect, do a > >fundamentalist jig. > > > >The other option is to gloss over and plainly deny > the existence of > >all these aspects (as many on this net do) and then > to march forward > >with a very selective view of Hinduism that is in > consonance with > >modern society and liberal values. The trouble with > this approach is > >that in all honesty, you cannot be very sure of > what it is you are > >clutching on to & therefore, in the long run, are > bound to run into > >certain contradictions - perhaps as your children > question you.... > > > >A third option would be to abandon the grand > tradition altogether > >and, in effect, convert to religious orders that > have their own > >philosphical systems that, even though historically > rooted in the > >grand narrative, actually offer a distinct > axiomatic system > >(Buddhism and Jainism were among the many such > early orders, as were > >some of the Vaishnava orders). The third option is > essentially > >fractious and inimical to the cause of a grand > Hindu identity. But > >it may well be the most honest and logical way out > for those who > >seek a religion. > > > >Santanu-da. > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of > xourov pathok > >Sent: Mon 3/27/2006 4:37 AM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: [Assam] caste system > > > >a short note on the caste system: > > > >the varna system, which found its first mention in > the > >rig veda itself, has been the only unbroken > tradition > >of hinduism. gods have come and gone (from indra > to > >rudra to krishna), forms of worship has changed > (from > >yajnas to puja) but the varna system has persisted. > >there is an oft repeated dictum, that hinduism did > not > >have a name for itself earlier. this is not true. > >the name of the religion was varnashram dharma. > the > >varna system is the most defining aspect of > hinduism. > > > >another dictum is that it divides. this also is > >untrue. in fact the varna system makes it possible > >for a jati to place itself in a readymade order. > this > >is important because there is no personal > conversion > >system in hinduism. instead entire jatis are > >converted (by placing them in the varna system), > like > >the scythians and the koches were made hindus by > >placing them in the kshatriya varna. this is > >important. because it lets, say, a sarma or a > barua > >from assam relate in a some meaningful way with a > >aiyar or an iyengar from tamil nadu. > > > >since the varna system is the most defining aspect > of > >hinduism, how can you remove or reform it out of > the religion? > > > >__________________________________________________ > >Do You Yahoo!? > >Tired of spam? 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