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> The belief in reincarnation and
the caste system that is integral to Hindu thinking (is it?) assumes that the upper
castes are nearing the destiny of >moksha. The lower
castes are still on the way. Foreigners are in some fashion included in
the wide view of Hinduism, though generally farther >away in
the progress to moksha. That there is not a desire to convert
does not mean Hinduism does not believe that its views are universal. >The
understanding for the reason why Hindus dont try to convert is
contained in the three major teachings of Hinduism: casteism,
>reincarnation, and karma. Each of these reinforce each other in the
belief that all men are on a pathat varying distances from attaining
>release from samsara into moksha. So in a sense, Hinduism believes
there is not need or fruitfulness to trying to convert someone.
>A parallel could be drawn in the treatment of poverty.
Poverty is seen as a persons karma in Hinduism; (aha!!!) relieving it is not particularly
useful or >helpful in the Hindu world view.
I am just quoting from the website
furnished by you. Be careful what you are listening to assuming to be an
authority. This guy is talking about higher and lower
castes, Did the Gita mention anything about higher or lower
caste.
But he is telling the truth. A
Hindu does not believe in conversion because he believes in status quo. Whatever
will happen will happen. Why bother to convert. In his hINDU
line of thinking a Hindu finds that there is no point in converting
someone, Firsly there is no punyo in doing that and helping the other guy to
become A Hindu will not make any difference.
In the Hindu line of thinking, there is no point in trying to help a poor,
bacue he is poor because of his Karma.
According to the above, Hindusim is
just fatalism.
One can see why Hinduism objects to
conversion.
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 5:59
PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] IE: Anti-conversion
law in Rajasthan?
Barua,
Here is one article (a Q &A) on this topic.
While looking for some answers, I found many sites on the subject. Some
felt that Hinduism allowed conversions, while others did not.
But what I found fasinating is that almost all the sites that believed
Hinduism allowed conversions said that while Christianity used "bribes"
and Islam used force, Hinduism usually sought "spiritual conversions" and
force or bribes were not used.
Now, I am sure you will able able to provide me with stuff off the net
claiming the exact opposite.
All I am saying is that the "belief" concept of most Hindus is that they
do not believe in conversions into the religion.
More later if I get hold of any more on the subject.
--Ram
On 4/10/06, Rajen
Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Ram:
In one recent email, we discussed this very
issue, (That Hindus believe that one
has to be born a Hindu and that they donot convert)
and my answer was same as now:
The Tai Ahoms in Assam, all
the Hindus in South East Asia, to say the least, were all converted to
Hindus. They were not BORN Hindus as you try to cliam.
Even in India, all non
Aryans were were picked up and converted to Hindus en mass at one time
or another, and that is how Hinduism grew.
So your assumption that Hindus donot convert
was wrong.
To this you replied that you
would check on this point and would respond.
I donot find the email now. I
might have deleted. But that does not make any difference. If you donot
remember, you may ignore my remarks now and just try to respond to the
question now afresh.
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 4:40
PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] IE:
Anti-conversion law in Rajasthan?
>According to
the last email, you were supposed to check and
>respond.
>Just reminding you that
you owe the net a response before >you jump to repeat the same
thing.
>(At least Himenda is
silent on several issues where he could >not respond.)
Could you please explain this
or what you mean by this? Once you give some satisfactory response, I will
then try to respond to the other points.
Till
then.
On 4/10/06, Rajen
Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>IMHO, this is NOT a win/lose game. Hindus are NOT
in the conversion game because most Hindus believe that one has to be
born a Hindu. They really don't care if someone >converts to Hinduism
or not. My understanding is that Hinduism is quite restrictive in
that sense.
As pointed out in some
other earlier message, your understanding is not correct.
The Tai Ahoms in Assam, all
the Hindus in South East Asia, to say the least, were all converted
to Hindus. They were not BORN Hindus as you try to
cliam.
And if you claim Buddhism
as a branch of Hindusim, then all the Chinese, Japanese, Koreans,
Burmese, Thais, Laosians, Vietnamis wer converted.
Even in India, all non
Aryans were were picked up and converted to Hindus en mass at one
time or another, and that is how Hinduism grew.
It was the big
fish eating the little fish. The history of
Hinduism is very clear on this.
According to
the last email, you were supposed to check and
respond.
Just reminding you that you
owe the net a response before you jump to repeat the same
thing.
(At least Himenda is silent
on several issues where he could not respond.)
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 3:32
PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] IE:
Anti-conversion law in Rajasthan?
Good oints Ram-dda,
I think the Supreme Court justices took the same view as you.
>The Hindus know that in the Conversion game,
they will loose >because they have nothing to show to these poor
Muslims.That is >sad but true.
IMHO, this is NOT a win/lose game. Hindus are NOT in
the conversion game because most Hindus believe that one has to be
born a Hindu. They really don't care if someone converts to Hinduism
or not. My understanding is that Hinduism is quite restrictive in
that sense.
>because they have nothing to show to these poor
Muslims.
And what would you like Hinduism to show or promise
new converts? It will be interesting to find out what one "gets"
by converting.
>So Freedom of Religion without Freedom for
Conversion does not >make any sense.
While this is true, it is still difficult to
uphold some kinds of conversion like in forcible conversions or by
promising or enticing the unwary with cash or other things
in this earth, or 79 virgins in heaven.
About Freedom of Religion, let us extend this a
bit:
What if I think "my religion" requires me to
advocate against gay marriages or abortion. Will any restriction
placed on my practice curtail my Freeddom of Religion?
Just curious.
--Ram
On 4/9/06, Barua25 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It (the Freedom to Convert) also goes
for the benefits of the Hindus. They can convert thousands or
millions of poor Muslims in every city in India, if they want
to covert. The only reason the Hindus oppose Conversion,
in my mind, is that the Hindus are not interested to convert these
poor Muslims in India to Hinduism and serve them, because they
know that these Muslims are enjoying a better life of equality
being Muslim than being a Hindu. The Hindus know that in
the Conversion game, they will loose because they have nothing to
show to these poor Muslims.That is sad but true.
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2006
9:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Assam] IE:
Anti-conversion law in Rajasthan?
Right to Freedom of Religion is
intricately connected to conversion. For me to change my religion,
I must be influenced by that religion and I will need somebody to
formally accept me in that religion. >From another angle that
can be viewed as conversion. So
Freedom of Religion without Freedom for Conversion does not make
any sense.
RB
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, April 08,
2006 2:30 PM
Subject: [Assam] IE:
Anti-conversion law in Rajasthan?
Please note that Supreme Court in India clarifiied last
year that there is definitely Right to Freedom of Religion but
there is no Right to convert others.The case had been filed by
Christian missionaries who want to convert members of other
faiths - mostky Hindus but also Muslims (in kashmir etc) , Sikhs
(in Punjab, Chhatisgarh etc) and Buddhists . The most famous
Sikh to convert to Christianity -as per reports - was the Sikh
King - Dalip Singh who then settled in London- while under
British rule.
Umesh Sharma
5121 Lackawanna
ST
College Park, MD 20740
1-202-215-4328 [Cell
Phone]
Ed.M. - International Education Policy
Harvard
Graduate School of Education,
Harvard University,
Class
of 2005
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Umesh
Sharma
5121 Lackawanna ST
College Park, MD
20740
1-202-215-4328 [Cell Phone]
Ed.M. - International
Education Policy
Harvard Graduate School of Education,
Harvard
University,
Class of 2005
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