I agree - independence movements do not need a historical basis for it. In this case, IMHO, the historical basis is somewhat flimsy. It takes away from the argument, if there is any!
--- Rajen & Ajanta Barua <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Well there can be movement for independence without > the support of >history based on the present state > of affairs if the people are for >independence for > whatever reasons > > If that then is the case, wouldn't such a movement > have no basis? "Whatever reasons" suggests that if > someone were to ask -'why do you want independence?' > There could be any number of reasons -- just like > the '6 Blind men of Hindustan' describing an > elephant. > > Ram: > Please remember that your logic is like a double > edged blade. For thw sake of arguments, you can > apply your logic to the case of India's independence > also. Don't you? India never was one country before, > and why India wanted independence? Why India did not > seek independence from the Moghols and why they > wanted independence from the British. To use your > words, There could be any number of reasons -- just > like the '6 Blind men of Hindustan' describing an > elephant. > > Logically, any group of people, has a birth right to > seek independent if they want to. For this they > will have to be united in spirit, be willing to > fight and die for their freedom. Whether they can > achieve independence or not is a separate issue. > > If tomorrow Quebec want to be independent from > Canada, or Kerela want to be independent from India, > they do not need any historical basis. But tehy will > have to have the political will for that. > Independence will not be given to them on a gold > plate. They will have to get it by force. > RB > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ram Sarangapani > To: Barua25 > Cc: mc mahant ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > [email protected] > Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 10:55 PM > Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's > bamboo-reinforcement > > > Barua, > > >Are you sure all the people of Assam either for > or against independence? > > All I said was, it would be doubtful to find > people who are ambivalent on this issue. > > >Many people may not support independence simply > because at present they >may not see anything to > support. > > That is an interesting way to put it. It suggests > that people may actually support independence ONLY > when they see some kind of benefit (be it material > or something else). If they were FORCED to, then > they would all fall in line and then support an > independence movement? > > >Well there can be movement for independence > without the support of >history based on the present > state of affairs if the people are for >independence > for whatver reasons > > If that then is the case, wouldn't such a movement > have no basis? "Whatever reasons" suggests that if > someone were to ask -'why do you want independence?' > There could be any number of reasons -- just like > the '6 Blind men of Hindustan' describing an > elephant. > > >There are cultural and historical differences. > That is the crux of the problem. >History, language, > culture, dress, food, religion - Assamese are > different than >the rest of the Indians. > > Other than some states in the North, most other > states in India have these differences. Orissa > borders W Bengal and Andhra - all three states have > these differences. Andhra, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, > Goa, and Kerala are also likewise different. Punjab > is different. I see only 3 or 4 states close enough > :MP, UP, Bihar, and that other new state. > Even the states (seven sisters?) are as far apart > from each other - culturally, language, food etc. > The common strings are border, currency and maybe > religion among some of them. > > I agree there are some differences in history. But > the history of northern and southern states are also > different. The Mugals barely, just barely touched > the South (Hyderabad) and before that North India > and South India were like 2 separate countries. > > >However, Assam is at present without any cultural > or political leader to >make things right, and > nobody is protesting openly. > > You may have a point there. I think there is a lot > of political apathy present. People may be > interested only in getting the best out of a bad > situation. > There seem to be some positive signs. The Govt. > has now fired some teacher (and doctors may be next) > for securing jobs on fake documents etc. The > Education minister conducted surprise raids in > schools and fired even some directors . > > --Ram > > > So, I submit, that cannot be of any overriding > significance. > > > On 8/31/06, Barua25 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >How can you be in the middle? I doubt, if one > could find anyone (Assamese) who is neither here nor > there :-) > > Are you sure all the people of Assam either for > or against independence? Many people may not > support independence simply because at present they > may not see anything to support. It does not mean > however that all those people are against > independence of Assam. > > >I was not aware of this. > > This is basic elementary history stuff which all > people of Assam should know. > > >But if this the case, then the most important > question is: Why this movement for independence? > Are the pro->independence people just brushing aside > history? Why are they now claiming otherwise? > > Well there can be movement for independence > without the support of history based on the present > state of affairs if the people are for independence > for whatver reasons. But I don't see any movement on > this basis. I don't see any discussions or debates > on this in a democratic process. Do you see any? Any > independence movement based on Assam's past history > since Yandabu Xondhi is rather weak now and will get > weaker everyday, unlike that of the Nagas who has a > stronger claim and who has been fighting for their > independence since 1940s. (Please note that we > Assamese never supported the independence movement > of the Nagas and rather supported the GOI in > supressing the Nagas, BTW). > > >I thought that this independence movement was > not based on cultural or historical differences or > events, but on the >aspirations of a few people for > power. > > I think you are wrong again. There are cultural > and historical differences. That is the crux of the > problem. History, language, culture, dress, food, > religion - Assamese are different than the rest of > the Indians. However, in Assam there is a conflict > between the Aryan and Mongoloid culture. Since > independence and before, caste Hindu Assamese > intellectuals are pulling towards Pan Indian Hindu > culture undermining much of the Mongoloid culture > and diluting much of the Assamese original culture. > The attempt to abolish the name 'Assam' (which is > an Assamese word derived from the word 'Shyam' which > is based on original Tai-Ahom source) is a latest > case in point angainst the supression of the > Mongolid culture. However, Assam is at present > without any cultural or political leader to make > things right, and nobody is protesting openly. > However all these pent up anger will lead Assam into > much darker future where all ethnic groups fighting > against each other. > > RB > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Ram Sarangapani > To: Barua25 > Cc: mc mahant ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; > [email protected] > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:14 PM > Subject: Re: [Assam] MC Mahanta's > bamboo-reinforcement > > > Dear Barua, > === message truncated ===> _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
