<http://www.sacw.net/Gujarat2002/BinaSr_130804.html>http://www.sacw.net/Gujarat2002/BinaSr_130804.html
Came across this piece about the Indian Democracy. At first I thoght
C'da had written it - but no, it was someone else :)
--Ram
On 11/17/06, Chan Mahanta
<<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello Sandip Dutta:
Good to receive your response. Also am glad that you saw some of my
posts. The idea is to promote a meaningful dialogue/discussion. I
will be the first to admit that my assessments, opinions and
analyses could be entirely wrong or without any substance. But it
needs to be pointed out how or why.
Anyone can dispense an opinion or verdict. But it has to be
substantiated with ordinary logic to be persuasive. After all, when
we post something we are trying to persuade others, right?
With that introduction, allow me to respond to your note:
>Your favourite root cause of all evils seems to be the
"dysfunctional desi >demokrasy"
*** I never presented the dysfunctional desi-demokrasy as the root
cause of anything at all. I could not if I wished to. The
dysfunctional sate of desi-demokrasy is a RESULT, a symptom and not
A or THE cause, much less 'the root cause'.
>Actually this sort of a sweeping banishment is akin to blaming
global warming >for the failure of GMC to supply clean and hygenic
drinking water for the last >30 years.
*** On the basis of the above, this statement is entirely irrelevant
and has no connection with the subject of discussion.
>his "desi demokrasy" actually works quite well in many states
other than Assam >and a few other states.
*** Okkay!. I will go along with your assertion here. If it is for
a fact, will you kindly share what you based this opinion on, in
reference to the subject that led to this discussion? HOW exactly
has desi-demokrasy been effectively utilized by states like Bengal,
or Maharashtra or who-have-you to mitigate illegal B'deshi
immigration to their states to alleviate their INSECURITIES?
But if you have trouble doing it in this context, you are welcome to
choose any other issue, considered a PROBLEM by these states or
societies, and HOW their people utilized desi-democratic or REAL
democratic principles of governance to resolve them?
>The idea is to make it work rather than wait for others to come
and make it >work for you.
*** I would agree here. Question is HOW? Functioning democracies
have functioning institutions of state, which they use as the tools,
to fix what is broken; to resolve problems their societies face.
Now let us not forget that a society's govt. does not have to be
DEMOCRATIC at all to be effective. It could be a monarchy, it could
be a dictatorship, it could even be anarchy. But we know that so
far, a democratic system has been proven to be the most desirable.
But just because a system is touted to be DEMOCRATIC, either for
show or even for a fact, it does NOT guarantee effectiveness. It is
merely means to an end.
That is why, those of you who wave India's democratic arrangements
as the ANSWER, as the END, remain clueless about what to do to turn
things around.That is why Rajkhowa's rants are thoroughly
meaningless.
If you look up today's AT on the web, you will see President Kalam
bemoaning Indian society's terrible corruption that has 'pervaded
every sphere of life', as HE states it. I could almost have sworn
he has been reading my Assamnet posts dating back 12 years or so for
using those exact words :-).
If desi-demokrasy is functional, WHY has India's fifty plus years of
independent
'democratic' governance is not only NOT getting any better, but has
been on a relentless downward spiral?
How would you reconcile YOUR assertion here, with what Prez. Kalam is saying?
>If you cannot make your own people comply with the laws, then you
cannot blame >the laws.
*** WHO is blaming the LAWS? Laws are tools, means to ends -- but
not ends unto themselves, are they? India has far too many laws, but
what good have they done for society?
And if they haven't, WHY? What is WRONG?
Oh, I know there are many who would tell us that the 'people are
bad'. You just told us that too. That the Biharis and the Assamese
are inept, and bad; unlike Bengalis, Keralites, Karnatakis and and
Maharashtrian. But that is a profoundly SIMPLE-MINDED assessment
that informed, thinking people don't make.
Now then, what is the problem and where? I have my views and
assessments, which I have written about in this forum a hundred
times. But I will do so again, IF you want to learn more about them.
I won't TELL you.
But I will help you find YOUR OWN answers, if you wish to pursue it
further. Unfortunately, most people are NOT QUITE UP TO treading
this ground. Once the question and answer sessions begin to tell the
real story, they realize what is going on, they disappear from the
scene or go silent.
That means only one thing: That they are unable to reconcile their
misbegotten perceptions and pre-conceived opinions with the reality.
But that does not take anyone anywhere.
Best to you.
cm
At 3:43 AM -0800 11/17/06, SANDIP DUTTA wrote:
Dear Sri Mahanta,
I have been reading your posts for some time.
Your favourite root cause of all evils seems to be the
"dysfunctional desi demokrasy".
Actually this sort of a sweeping banishment is akin to blaming
global warming for the failure of GMC to supply clean and hygenic
drinking water for the last 30 years. This "desi demokrasy" actually
works quite well in many states other than Assam and a few other
states. The idea is to make it work rather than wait for others to
come and make it work for you. Democracy, even desi, is not
disfunctional. Instead, its custodians in various states are the
disfunctional ones in varying degrees. Good examples would be Assam
and Bihar. If you cannot make your own people comply with the laws,
then you cannot blame the laws.
Compare this with Kerala, Karnataka or Maharashtra or even our
neighbour West Bengal who firmly beleive in the same "demokrasy" and
yet do much better than Assam.
Rgds,
SD
----- Original Message ----
From: Chan Mahanta <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: s hazarika < <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
Chan Mahanta <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: SANDIP DUTTA <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>;
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 1:57:47 AM
Subject: Re: Assamese Fears and Saviours
H:
At 12:40 PM +0530 11/15/06, s hazarika wrote:
Mahanta;
I knew you would not keep quiet.
*** You read me like an open book. Question is if it was welcome or
unwelcome :-)?
In management, we are told that there cannot be right or wrong answers.
*** I am ignorant of 'management' principles. Besides I am plagued
by a long held belief that 'management' is also a foil, a
respectable cover, for not so respectable 'manipulation', among
other things. That is why it is hard for me to swallow the line in
its entirety, even though I can imagine there could be some truth in
it, under some circumstances.
When things are not happening the way they should happen, we must
try to find out WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? We must be able to distinguish
between a problem and the manifestation of a problem. The
manifestation of a problem should not be construed by us as the
problem.
*** I can agree with that. Those of us who have to go by our
home-grown wits, would call it going beyond attempting to treat the
symptoms and deal with the root cause/s. Like the Assam insurgency
for a glaring example.
Bangladeshis in Assam is the problem or a manifestation of a
problem that lies elsewhere?
How much informed debates have taken place on the issue and how much
of the debates have been based on prejudgement of the issue, without
adequate home work, undewrstanding of the problem or the ground
realities? How many of those who show concern have read Sanjoy
Hazarika's book?
*** I can't speak of Hazarika's book, but I sure have read informed
and thoughtful discussions of the problem right here in Assam net.
But of course those are thoroughly ignored and buried by the
cacophony of the lungi-menace
wavers, trishul-wielders ,invader-invokers and insecurity-analyst
Babus and news-paper editors and columnists.
Mahanta: you ask what is the solution to the problem? I wish there
was an easy cut and dried answer. But let us make honest attempts
instead of airing platitudes.
*** Here I am firmly with you. I also am acutely aware of the
complexity of the problem and the unavailability of simple solutions
that would satisfy simple-minded people. But completely without
answers it is NOT. There are a number of measures that will have to
be undertaken to deal with it in many
fronts, and not a moment too soon. However the kind of hot-air blown
by the Sentinel or by ex-Chief Secys. like Rajkhowa or Bamun-bigots
and BJP-B'deshi-baiters are not among them. Just as the tongue-tied,
see-no-evil, hear-no-evil, Congresswallas' vote-banking vices are
not.
Question is who will bell the cat? Who will begin to implement those
measures that are direly needed ? There-in lies the problem with the
dysfunctional desi-demokrasy that you all are dedicated to, but
which cannot deliver. Never did and never will in its present form.
m
Shgantikam hazarika
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Chan Mahanta
To: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Shantikam Hazarika
Cc: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>SANDIP DUTTA ;
<mailto:[email protected]> [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
O' Hazarika:
At 11:57 PM +0530 11/14/06, Shantikam Hazarika wrote:
Exuses are galore. If the chief executive of the state cannot solve the
state's problems, who can? Me?
*** Bhal prosno korise. You ask a good question. I am with you here.
I feel i have contrubuted what has been within my capacity and therefroe I
think i have the right to question others.
*** Again I agree.
But having said all that, allow me to ask Sri Dutta and you too:
WHAT is the solution to the problem? And what is Sri Rajkhowa's
solution? Or for that matter all the others who have been crying
hoarse over the lungi menace for decades on end--what is their
solution?
*** If as Sri Dutta speculates :"---It could be that he did try to
do a few things but then the question is whether he got any support
from his political bosses and the rudderless pressure groups. "
What are Sri Dutta's recommendations to get those 'political bosses' and
'rudderless pressure groups ' in line, so that the Chief Secys like
the Rajkhowas of Assam can perform their duties and SOLVE the
problem? And if it is NOT their responsibility, then help them get
their courage together to say aloud at least WHOSE responsibility it
is. Funny thing is that I am YET to see anyone who has the b---s to
say it like it is, never mind Rajkhowa, never mind Dutta, never mind
all the other Kharkhowa Indians!
*** I have this uncanny feeling that those who look at the
lungi-menace as Assam's only or the most significant problem, are
people whose visions are damaged by religious bigotries, even if
they had any to begin with. All they are capable of is moaning and
groaning, bereft of the ability to analyze the problem and looking
at achievable solutions. Just like most things Indian, they think
crying about something is the same thing as doing something about it!
Best.
cm
Shantikam hazarika
----- Original Message -----
From: "SANDIP DUTTA" <<mailto:pseude%40yahoo.com> [EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <<mailto:assamonline%40yahoogroups.com>[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 4:48 PM
Subject: Re: [asom] Assamese Fears and Saviours
Its not a question of what he didn't do.
It could be that he did try to do a few things
but then the question is whether he got any support
from his political bosses
and the rudderless pressure groups.
There are many here who would question the actions
of others without really having contributed
anything concrete themselves.
Rgds,
SD
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