C'da & Chitta,
This is getting more interesting by the second.
But I will let Chitta fend for himself (and has
ably done so this far).
Just wanted to touch on a small part, and then I will butt out.
>So why don't YOU raise your voice to put an
end to that debate, by >calling for a free >and
fair referendum after a period of unfettered
and >informed public debate and >discussion?
With the highly revered >Election Commission
with its stellar record at >hand to guarantee
the >fairness of an outcome, what seems to be
the problem :-)?
Calls for a referundum are a common ploy by
insurgents and those who think they are fighting
for some noble cause. What they really want to
do is to put the onus on the country. Its like
saying - 'prove that I'am wrong'. Such a ref.
would be great for insurgents - it shows that at
last someone is paying attention to them, and
also if such a thing is ever held, all they have
to do is brandish their weapons, kill some who
dare to stand up, and the rest of the people
will fall in line and vote for the cause (or so
they hope). The last thing anyone will see is a
'free & fair' ref.
You see it in Kashmir, and you see it in Assam.
Now, why should a country try to prove anything
to a group of insurgents, who possess only
stolen money and guns (but no principles). And
further, why should the country want to do that
when
(a) its against its constitution to give
independence to some portion just because a
group of wannabes want it
((b) No govt. in the state or Center has the
right to give in to such a ref. as Assam is NOT
their's to give away to insurgents.
All Assamese want is that the Govt. fulfill its
obligations to the state (which it hasn't done
effectively for the past so many years). And
this does not tantamount to seeking independence.
(c) And lastly, and more importantly, most
people in the state want to remain a part of
India.
--Ram
On 2/9/07, Chan Mahanta
<<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Hi C:
I changed the subject right back. "The Minority
Assamese" smacks of a persecution complex based
on ethnic,linguistic or cultural identity. For
people like you or I, world-citizens, that would
be a rather unbecoming complaint. We ought to
pursue more relevant and concrete issues.
No I don't think 'Answers for Chitta ' is at all
personal. We have had many such
discourses in assamnet in the past. But if it
still bothers you, you are welcome to change it
to something different. But let us not get into
such things as Assamese ethnic persecution
complex. We, the caste- Assamese, have little
room to complain about that, if you know what I
mean.
Allow me to clarify a few of your
misconceptions, before we get back to your
questions. And I will continue to resort to
cutting and pasting the questions
to post my response, so that the reader, if
there is any, can follow the context; in spite
of your fears about it appearing too
argumentative. I have no problems with that, if
YOU don't.
>Bottom line is Mahanta da just because of I am based
>in Perth or you know my family or my immediate background ,
*** I don't know anything about you or yours. I
don't need to. And I never would have asked the
question, had you NOT prefaced your questions
with:
But not all of them-not the ones I know of. As far as my relatives,
friends, parents,brothers, numerous cousins spread all
over Assam are concerned (and if you consider them "my own
people"),freedom from India is not much of an issue for them.
I don't take issue with your bringing your kin
into the equation. They are the people we know
and understand most. However, when you or I
extend the lessons learnt from that to apply all
over Assam, or to the vast majority of Assam as
you do, then we must examine the validity of the
premise. Whether what you and your kin represent
is the NORM for the rest of Assam?
Do you still see my inquiry therefore an
illogical or irrelevant one, designed to
obfuscate as you insinuate?
Now, should you not feel trapped by this
request, you can do it , without divulging
specific personal details, like:
Grandparents from Lower Assam, rural, subsistence farmers
with adequate arable land ( or landless sharecroppers, or scions
of Zamindars, or school teacher in British Assam -- so on and so
forth)
Father, one of six siblings, local high school topper, MSc GU,
IAS. Mother, daughter of High Ct clerk.
Or Father BSc, Xorobhwg College,
Local High School teacher, mother daughter of local Mahajan.
Grew up in thatched hut, but now have poka-ghor, owns a motor scooter.
So on and so forth.
I worked hard, studies at distant High School with a Christian Saint's
name, three stars at HS, IIT-Mumbai in Comp. Science, now at Perth.
Three Siblings--a doctor, a college teacher and a businessman.
Twenty two cousins ( by last count), spanning from aspiring IAS to
AEC Engineer to Wineshop Owner to rice-farmers to a black-sheep in the
ULFA. So on and so forth.
Not very hard, is it? But it will give US some
clues to why you are COMFORTABLE with the status
quo of Assam governance under Indian controls.
It will also tell us whether the lessons learned
from YOUR kins' circumstances could be applied
to the rest of Assam that you so effortlessly
did, as a premise to your questions.
*** You brought up a whole lot of other issues
too that I could have a field day answering :-).
But time is short. So let me take a stab at your
re-phrased ACE question, even though to address
it in isolation, without attempting to
understand what 'independence' means is at best
a silly endeavor. But I know why it bothers you
to delve into the issues associated with
'independence'. Unfortunately such attempts by
Assam's intelligentsia or its well wishers to
avoid looking at the real issues underlying the
demand or wish for independence would not lead
to a solution. It will merely help perpetuate
the conflict that besets Assam. The choice is
yours. You can run from the issues all you want,
but you cannot hide. So I hope you as a well
wisher of Assam, who has seen better, would want
to apply the lessons learnt, to contribute
towards betterment of Assam's lot instead of
helping perpetuate what is killing it.
> Because this was the crux of my
>question! WHERE is the cry for independence in Assam?
For one, it appears to me that ULFA raises it. Did I misread it?
I know, I know --- but THEY don't represent
Assam's aspirations right? Unlike your kin do
:-)?
You may be right. Who am I to question that?
So why don't YOU raise your voice to put an end
to that debate, by calling for a free and fair
referendum after a period of unfettered and
informed public debate and discussion? With the
highly revered Election Commission with its
stellar record at hand to guarantee the
fairness of an outcome, what seems to be the
problem :-)?
More later.
m-da
At 2:31 AM -0800 2/9/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote:
Hello Mahanta da
I changed the subject matter to "The Minority
Assamese" as "Answer to Chitta" was sounding too
personal and intent is also to attract more audience
including those who have "failed" before me as every
one would like to be satiated by your reply (the final
one). This is another thing that many people would any
way open a mail from Chan Mahanta to read it
surreptitiously.
Thanks for your attempt to reply and for opening on to
me a deluge of thoughts and questions in an attempt to
drown me, whilst I had only one very specific question
like "Gabbar Singh's kitne aadmi the" for you.
The question was whether you believe or not that you
are in minority league?
Yes of course-I did not expect short crisp reply. But
like a sorcerer you were trying to lead me away from
my quest with your wizardry of words. Still I will
steer clear and lead you to my specific query. I will
also resort to cut, paste and dissect style reply you
so often apply to counter thoughts and ideas that you
don't prescribe to, though I don't find it comfortable
as it looks too argumentative. (Now Mahanta da-do not
respond to this-otherwise it will just get
protracted).
**Is it an uniquely Assamese condition? That your
people and mine, are so uniquely apathetic that they
will soon forget thus perhaps are deserving of what
they get?
We all know guilty going unpunished is not at all
uniquely Assamese condition. You can bomb the
parliament of India and still escape hang man's noose.
I admit situation is very bad in India.
But I for the time being agree with your tacit
reasoning in the question you posed that it is an
Indian ill. But will it go away if Assam is free from
India? Because USA (United States of Assam) will run
under the same constrains and set up as those of India
which resulted that pathetic condition at the very
first place.
But don't you think this lax attitude has proved to be
beneficial to some of the indigenous people of our
state also? Because you can bomb, kill, extort but
still get condoned to lead a comfortable life with an
allowance to keep your AK-47 if you attend one of
those surrender ceremonies and if your committed all
those crimes purportedly for a cause for autonomy or
secession. You surely will agree!! I will come to that
later.
**Now we are in complicated territory, getting ahead
of ourselves. To understand these issues we will have
to take a few steps back and take a look at a larger
context :
Mahanta da here you are digressing. All I wanted to
know was who are "your people" who are yearning for
freedom? Any answer like all Assamese people, all
Assamese speaking people, people from Brahmaputra
valley, people who have never seen Dispur-any thing
would have been satisfying. But you skipped -because I
think you are facing difficulty in finding them.
**So WHY independence then? What is wrong with Indian
rule -- that you, your kin and your friends are
comfortable with, and I will have to guess, prospered
from?
Tricky-I will tackle this in two parts.
**So WHY independence then?
Here you got it wrong Mahanta da? I caught your
Googly. I have to stop you here because you are basing
your logic on the premise that it is a GIVEN that
there is cry for independence in Assam. I replace your
WHY with WHERE. Because this was the crux of my
question! WHERE is the cry for independence in Assam?
Where Mahanta da? Which section? Which community?
Which portion of Assam-lets go to most backward
district of Assam-Dhemaji? Baska? Chirang? Or in
Bodoland where Mr Mohilary has revealed his grand plan
of having nothing to do with Assam and Assamese in
next 20 years? You have to be specific here Mahanta
da. You will have to answer my 95% poll result query,
then only you can go from where to why.
**What is wrong with Indian rule -- that you, your kin
and your friends are comfortable with, and I will have
to guess, prospered from?
You guessed it wrong-Mahanta da. Just because I come
from Guwahati or Bongaigaon does not mean everything
is fine with every one I know of. Most of my childhood
friends and numerous of my cousins are far from
prosperous and are still struggling. May be you would
not have hazarded a guess about my kith and kin's
prosperity had my title been Pegu or Padum instead of
Pathak. Time is changing Mahanta da-don't go by
surnames in Assam nowadays.
**Now we are in even more complicated territory. And
here it will be helpful to know a little more about
you, your kins' and friends' circumstances. I am not
seeking personal info. Just give us a general
introduction, about you, your parents, your
grand-parents. We will have to look at this data in
relation to the overall condition of the people of
Assam and see if you are typical or the exception.
This was interesting-you can be funny sometimes. How
can I give you "impersonal" introduction about my
parents, grandparents? I will give my introduction to
you separately Mahanta da. And don't be surprised if I
am related to you-knowing fully well how small
different Assamese communities are.
But for the purpose of this debate, I think you don't
need to look at my "family data". I told you on my
earlier post that you can discount my "ongohi bongohi"
to be true representative of Assamese people. At this
stage let us not give them any benefit of doubt and
let them all be classed as privileged exception not
meriting to be representative of people of
Assam-discounting the fact that many my cousins are
without any job whose standard weapon to ward off
embarrassment is "business kori asu" reply; numerous
of my cousins and families from lower Assam are
subjected to all kinds of subtle harassment and
disadvantages in their newly carved out home territory
of BTC districts for not being on winning side and
discounting the .I will stop here least it becomes
too personal and sounds parochial.
So can we get back to those people who are yearning
for independence-I do not loose track easily.
**And if you are the exception, WHAT was it that has
led to you and your kins' escape from where the rest
find themselves in. If it is hereditary traits or
sheer hard work and individual enterprise or that zeal
to pull yourselves up by the boot-straps that Indian
governance afforded you and which you would not want
to swap or lose -- for yourselves or for other
aspirants for that good life. We will need to
determine HOW you got ahead in-spite of what those
others so decry and want to change--namely Indian
governance and Indian control of Assam's future.
Frankly speaking I did not quite understand what you
wanted to say here. Least you misunderstand this as a
case of selective non receptiveness, I will
nevertheless attempt a reply. If I am off the track,
you will please save me from ridicule by rephrasing
your question.
By escape I suppose you mean this state of relative
privilege where one can take some time off to connect
to internet to talk about distant Assam?
Clarification-not all my kith and kin have made this
great escape. But neither they are decrying and
wanting to change Indian control over Assam's future
for being deprived of this. For they can not afford to
take that perilous journey having paid the price for
being so devoted to a cause during eighty's agitation.
As you said they want better education for their
children-and this they can not get inside camps in
Myanmar, Bhutan or Bangladesh.
But then they are my relatives, who might fail on data
analysis, so I reiterate, leave them aside and please
go through the 4 categories I listed on my first post.
Then please attempt a reply-preferably in "Ha" or
"Na". No I don't dread a long reply from you, we can
get to that after your short "Ha" or "Na" reply also.
Bottom line is Mahanta da just because of I am based
in Perth or you know my family or my immediate
background , it will be very difficult for you
classify all of my "kith and kin" back in Assam into a
single category as we represent all the shades and
come in huge number. In today's Assam you can not make
the mistake of classifying a guy as unprivileged or
disadvantaged just because he say he hails of from
Dhudhnoi , Bismuri or Laimekuri or just because you
don't have a clue about his linage.
I wait not for your response to all I have written but
to this this single query-whether seeing present state
of Assam and Assamese, do you consider yourself to be
part of the minority believer or not?
Once you say yes or no-we will follow up after that.
Best regards and have a nice weekend.
Chittaranjan
--- Chan Mahanta <<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Chitta:
Here I will attempt to address your queries, one at
a time.
You seem to be quite conversant about the role of
CISF. Perhaps you are an OIL or ONGC employee?
> >But here it was a case of sheer ego boosting
exercise.
>CRPk dekhi uthil gaa, CISFe bule muku khaa. The
>officer must be punished.
*** What you are speaking of here is an
environment of anarchy. When the ranks of the
keepers of the peace and the upholder of the rule
of law indulge in such behavior, it means only
one thing: There is NO deterrence. They can do
whatever they wish to--obviously with impunity,
as thousands of episodes of fake-encounter
killings, killings in detention, disappearance
after arrests amply illustrate.
> >But no body is going to
>follow it up in Assam-so may be he will end up
getting
>secretly transferred to some oil installation in
>Ankleswar basin. Are we in a position to do
something
>to force authorities punish such high handed
arrogant
>officials?
*** Yours is a typically lament here. Let us
examine it and its underlying assumptions and
implications:
Is it an uniquely Assamese condition? That your
people and mine, are so uniquely apathetic that
they will soon forget thus perhaps are deserving
of what they get?
I make the question purposely provocative,
because I have seen it any number of times
presented here, exactly with such implications.
And I will follow up, after I hear from you on
that. There is a whole lot more to it than meets
the eye. I wished you and others were aware of
them. But I also know how you never were
conditioned to ask the questions and look deeper
to get at the bottom of these things. I hope your
participation in Assamnet will change that :-).
> >you refuted Ram da's
>anguished declaration that you are always the "fair
>and balanced" by saying that your partisanship lies
>with "my people's" aspiration of "running their
lives
>as they say fit".
*** Not exactly. I don't buy the pithy arguments
that we have to be 'balanced' - to distribute
guilt all across the board since no-one is
blameless and thus 'upai-nai aaru'. There is such
a thing as a degree of guilt, of responsibility.
That is why I get so sarcastic with those who
wear the mantle of 'fair-and-balanced' to paint a
picture of insipid greys that obliterate the
whites and blacks of the picture. And I do not
hesitate to point out why it could be a
politically motivated attempt to shield the
guilty, the responsible. That is why I make no
apologies for my partisanship about Assam's
rights. I don't go about waving that flag of the
'fair-and-balanced', instead I make the arguments
I do to explain my stance.
> >Respecting your siding and at the same time
letting
>you know that my heart also lies with the
aspiration
>of those same people for a "better life", may I ask
>you the following small question?
*** I know you do. I also know that even those
who you might not agree with your stance about
> how to achieve them hold the same aspirations --
of having a roof over their heads, three square
meals a day, an opportunity to send their
children to a school where they can get an
education, a minimum amount of health care so
> that they don't have to die premature deaths from
diseases that ought not kill any more. In that we
are on common ground.
> >Background
>By my people you must be referring to Assamese
people
>and by "running their lives as they say fit" you
must
>be meaning an independent Assam. Are the Assamese
>people really aspiring to be free or independent
from
>India? Yes-some are. But not all of them-not the
ones
>I know of. As far as my relatives, friends,
parents,
>brothers, numerous cousins spread all over Assam
are
>concerned (and if you consider them "my own
people"),
>freedom from India is not much of an issue for
them.
>
*** Now we are in complicated territory, getting
ahead of ourselves. To understand these issues we
will have to take a few steps back and take a
look at a larger context :
WHY is it that SOME in Assam want independence or
sovereignty or the right to determine the way to
achieve what you and the others -- all- do? Is
independence some kind of a divine decree, a
'bor' which will magically transform Assam from
its misery to that shining land?
Obviously not, I am sure you will agree.
So WHY independence then? What is wrong with
Indian rule -- that you, your kin and your
friends are comfortable with, and I will have to
guess, prospered from?
Now we are in even more complicated territory.
And here it will be helpful to know a little more
about you, your kins' and friends'
circumstances. I am not seeking personal info.
Just give us a general introduction, about you,
your parents, your grand-parents. We will have
to look at this data in relation to the overall
condition of the people of Assam and see if you
are typical or the exception. And if you are the
exception, WHAT was it that has led to you and
your kins' escape from where the rest find
themselves in. If it is hereditary traits or
sheer hard work and individual enterprise or that
zeal to pull yourselves up by the boot-straps
that Indian governance afforded you and which you
would not want to swap or lose -- for yourselves
or for other aspirants for that good life. We
will need to determine HOW you got ahead in-spite
of what those others so decry and want to
change--namely Indian governance and Indian
control of Assam's future.
We will follow up on these and other points after we
hear from you.
Until then.
m-da
At 2:29 AM -0800 2/7/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote:
>Dear Shri Mahanta da
>Warm up
>Thanks for the insight on the unfortunate Galeki
>incidence. Yes you are right-CISF is meant to be
>checking security passes and stuff like oil tanker
>permits at the industrial installation gates,
loading
>bays etc. It was clearly a case of overstepping
their
>boundaries.
>Somebody was asking-why they are given guns? Till
>recently many of them were having only sticks. But
now
>they are guarding all the vital oil/gas/nuclear
>installations other places like Akshardham,
>parliament, airports etc and role includes warding
off
>terrorist attacks also. So guns are justified and
so
>would have been the killing had the shots been
aimed
>at some saboteur climbing a high security wall of
an
=== message truncated ===
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