I doubt that one can judge the Intent from an email. How did you judge that I
wanted to find fault or alibi to reject when I wrote to ULFA? When I wrote the
emails two years ago, it was a sincere attempt to get information. When there
was total silence even after two attempts, it was very clear that it was a lost
cause.
I stand behind my statement that ULFA is clueless.So is everyone else who
discusses ULFA issues, mainly because ULFA is clueless. Haven't you noticed how
every related topic discussed here turns into accusations of "clueless" and
"uninformed" without any semblance of a proper discussion?
Your attempts to justify ULFA's existence and performance are meaningless
because it is doubtful that you ( like the rest of us) know ULFA's master plan.
Dilip
===============================================================
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I am now convinced that it is the latter because the vocal supporters
with answers for everything else >cannot answer these questions either, nor do
they know where to go for the answers. Talk about >cluelessness.
*** Two points to note:
A: Intent of the questions asked
If the intent was to learn, with the idea of extending support,
provided the answers
were satisfactory, that would be one thing. But if the questions were
asked with the
hope of finding fault or even alibis to reject and to devalue, that
would be another.
Few months ago, I spent a lot of time articulating almost exactly
these issues, albeit
from MY perspective, in my words, with the hope that the requests and
challenges were
made with a sincerity of purpose, to engage in a constructive
dialogue to help people
set some goals for Assam govt's. betterment . But they were not. In
fact it became
abundantly clear from the arguments made for their rejection, some so
poorly contrived
that they verged on insults to the intelligence of ordinary people.
The real intent could
have been best described as 'apwnar naak-kati xotinir jatra bhongo
korar proyax'
( smacking of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face).
Are these valid nuances to consider? I will let the fair and
balanced crowd decide that :-).
B: Talk about cluelessness.
It is a DIFFERENT kind of clueless-ness from the kind I characterized
the arguments
and questions posed , eliciting the charge of insulting netters.
Therefore if it is presented as a retaliation in kind, it does NOT
fly :-).
Also the verdict :
> am now convinced that it is the latter because the vocal supporters
with answers for
>everything else cannot answer these questions either, nor do they
know where to
> go for the answers
above is , at best, a self-serving statement, to reiterate one's own
certitude. It has no
connection what-so-ever to the issues discussed or ideas presented.
Hardly any
different in quality or substance from JS's prescriptions to end the
'mohamari' :-).
At 12:59 PM -0700 5/17/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
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From my earlier email, " If ULFA wants the support of the rational people of
Assam, let ULFA state clearly in detail what its " modern, truly democratic
state with a rule of law" is and How " the right to have full control over its
resources" will be utilized to make everyone's life better in Assam." To
the best of my knowledge, ULFA has not published anything on the above
subjects. Even their website did not say anything about Assam's future after
Assam becomes a sovereign nation. Long before I got CM's advice in his last
email to contact ULFA directly, I had written twice to the email address that
ULFA used in the past, asking the same questions. That probably was two years
ago. Needless to say, I never got a response. So I assume either ULFA thinks I
do not deserve a response or ULFA does not have answers to the questions. I
am now convinced that it is the latter because the vocal supporters with
answers for everything else cannot answer these questions
either, nor do they know where to go for the answers. Talk about cluelessness.
Dilip Deka ===========================================================
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>DD: What you are forgetting is this - not everyone in Assam agrees with ULFA
--
*** No I did not forget that. That is why I wrote:
"There are those of us who are not handicapped by such a mindset, will
continue to speak up for Assam's rights."
And we shall.
>incessant insult of the clueless (in your words)
*** And I stand by the characterization, because it was unequivocally
demonstrated in the posts concerned.
Perhaps DD will tell us WHY they are NOT 'clueless'? That would PROVE the
point.
*** Just because a lot of people say something, does not make it right. A
bunch of fools saying a bunch of foolish things do not automatically become
cleansed by the NUMBERS.
>If ULFA wants the support of the rational people of Assam, let ULFA state
>clearly in detail what its " modern, truly democratic state with a rule of
law" >is and How " the right to have full control over its resources" will be
>utilized to make everyone's life better in Assam.
*** Those were MY words. If DD wants ULFA's responses, he ought to address
ULFA and ask them that question. *I* ,Chandan Mahanta, do not speak for ULFA.
But I do have reasons to believe that those are ideals ULFA does harbor.
Now on a side note, if DD seeks such assurances from ULFA, he might write to
them. But an ordinary observer could surmise that DD's willingness to give ULFA
that support,regardless of ULFA's plans for Assam, in view of DD's decades of
expressions regarding ULFA, would be suspect :-). Thus a serious response from
ULFA to his request may or may not be forthcoming is how *I* would see it. But
things do change. If were in DD's shoes, and did have a change of heart, I
might try it. Nothing to lose.
*** But considering the responses to my posts on reforming Assam governance
from those netters who have been involved in trashing ULFA all these years,
amounting to nothing more than "WE DON't WANT" such reforms, because Oxomiyas
are unable to deliver or they are no different from what exists today or
impractical due to possible boundary disputes or other FEEBLE excuses, does not
make DD's claim here very believable.
But *I* am always open for any chance of progress. So good luck!
*** Finally, I ask DD too: WHY should those of who have every confidence ,
not only on ourselves, but on the people of Assam to be able to deliver on a
reformed system, as good as the best in the world, advocate ULFA's surrender
and advise Assam to accept and be happy with what has NOT worked for sixty plus
years of Indian misrule, as even MOST thoughtful Indian commentators would
readily agree ?
cm
At 7:37 AM -0700 5/16/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
From below - " Just like you all, I too want the conflict to end. But not on
YOUR ( by this I include all of you who have vented your clueless frustrations
) terms, a surrender to Indian interests. I would like to see ULFA obtain for
Assam the rights to re-form its governance to a modern, truly democratic state
with a rule of law and the right to have full control over its resources."
DD: What you are forgetting is this - not everyone in Assam agrees with ULFA
and its violence for sovereignty, just like not everyone in this net agrees
with you and your incessant insult of the clueless (in your words) . It is
wrong for ULFA to assume that ULFA is the voice of Assam, just as it is wrong
for you to assume that anyone who does not agree with you is clueless.
If ULFA wants the support of the rational people of Assam, let ULFA state
clearly in detail what its " modern, truly democratic state with a rule of law"
is and How " the right to have full control over its resources" will be
utilized to make everyone's life better in Assam.
Everyone has his own idea of an ideal state. We all would like to hear what
the dreamers in Dhaka have to say on the two subjects above. If there is
someone among the netters who is in the know, he is welcome to step in and
provide the details.
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Good to hear from you Chitta.
We ask QUESTIONS in a debate like this to prove or disprove a point, or to
help lead someone to a find an answer or a solution.
JS's post supposedly was about "End this disease called ULFA"
Fine! He had two prescriptions:
A: Wipe out ULFA militarily.
B: Send ULFA sympathizers to prison.
Do YOU , as a mature and informed adult, able to reason; believe those
recommendations would bring about the results of his or your or Ram's or all
the others' ( who have chimed in with an array of responses and posed questions
of yours truly) desires ?
If not, what are your recommendations? What do YOU bring to the table? How do
you see it resolved?
All those questions you all pose at me, designed to make ULFA look like a
bunch of thugs and rogues , not to mention traitors to your Indian-ness defined
by a Hinduttwa inspired animus towards Pakistan or even B'Desh , while
congratulating each other on your intellectual marksmanship with the perception
that you had me on the ropes, mean:
* That you all are frustrated and at wit's end on how to end the
conflict.
* ULFA maybe all things you attempt to portray them as, and even
worse, but HOW
does that solve the problem?
* If you are trying to convince me or Mukul Mahanta that ULFA is what
YOU all portray
them as and convert us to your side to badger ULFA or make
them look bad in
the internet, it still would not solve the problem, would it?
* Taunting is something indulged in by children and immature adults,
when they are unable
to get their way with an adversary. Do you think ULFA will
keel over or disappear
because of such taunting or from the barrage of insults that
you all heap on them?
It is an abject display of clueless-ness, that's all. Don't
you think it is unseemly?
Just like you all, I too want the conflict to end. But not on YOUR ( by this
I include all of you who have vented your clueless frustrations ) terms, a
surrender to Indian interests. I would like to see ULFA obtain for Assam the
rights to re-form its governance to a modern, truly democratic state with a
rule of law and the right to have full control over its resources.
Those of you who are satisfied with your vision of an Assam as an Indian
colony to be exploited by outsiders with a few in Assam sharing in the loot, as
things are today, that is your burden.
There are those of us who are not handicapped by such a mindset, will
continue to speak up for Assam's rights.
Take care.
m-da
At 2:45 AM -0700 5/16/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote:
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Mahanta da Salute
Jyatirmay posed some questions-:
>- Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is
creating economic and social disorder in our state?
>- Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when
confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are
killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb
attacks at public places?
>- Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people?
>- They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people
they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons?
You first did your patented qualitative analysis of these questions to
classify them as dumb, dumber and dumbest. But let me assure you, many people
in Assam are asking these seemingly dumb questions. While trying to work out
intelligent responses to these dumb questions, you came out with not dumb; but
some very disgusting explanations. And in the process you:
Justified ULFAs extortion as a form of TAXATION
Endorsed the hobnobbing with ISI and BDesh Jehadis as a STRATEGIC ALLAINCE
Defended the killing of children and civilians as a modus operandi of the
CONFLICT.
Can we go back to your intelligent responses to these dumb questions one by
one?
TAXATION
Try explaining this taxation scheme to those belonging to the samples I have
given below. I am just limiting to few-with little effort I can post to you
some copies of extortion notices (sorry tax advices) also.
1) This guy from humble background from Abhayapuri by grace of
reservation/education in an engineering college gets a job in Public sector
(OIL-Duliajan). Settles down, gets married and commits his first mistake of
family life-taking an easy PSU provided loan buys a brand new Maruti 800 (it
was late eighties). The happiness was short lived-the new car was whisked away
never to be seen again for Xongothon activities. Served him right for being
materialistic!!
2) Try explaining this taxation to tea tribes who have to resort to
strike every year for timely payment of few thousands of rupees as Puja bonus
where as their employers have to pay millions of rupees to these outfits. By
the way as you can see-the polarization is complete now. These guys will rip
you apart if you talk of independence and taxation. There is no
solidarity-leave alone on the ULFA front but also on the army atrocities on
innocent people as long as people dying are from the other side of the fence.
3) Or to the GMC trained Assamese government doctor posted in Diphu
donating part of his monthly salary to UPDS coffer.
4) Or to this Assamese teacher in NC Hills (few of the last remaining
breed-will be forced to rush to plain as soon as Dimaraji is claimed) who is
visited by Hindi speaking DHD cadres every month.
5) Or to those contractors who still dare to do some theeka thukali in
Bodoland.
By the way is there any rare instance of this taxed money being used for a
purpose like monetary help to those innocent people killed by armed forces in
the name of ULFA hunting? Do you know of any instances?
STRATEGIC ALLINACE
Mahanta da you gave a good justification why some of the ULFA leaders are
holed up in BDesh. Strategic reason-good reasoning! Ram da unnecessarily
lambasted you on this. Can I ask you a personal question?
How far will you go on endorsing such spineless strategic alliance where the
voice of the protagonist gets muffled by those pulling the strings? And if
tomorrow they take this BDesh/ISI aided anti-India stance to extreme and
declare that they would like to see Assam as an independent IRA (Islamic
Republic of Assam) asking a segment of squabbling people forgo their religious
independence for the sake of national independence of Assam. Will you still
support them and endorse this as a strategic shift. Or you have set some
limit up to which you will go on supporting ULFAs strategic alliance and then
no further.
No it is not a trap question for you. May be your personal response will give
us an indication of importance the proponents place on various binding
identities on which they seek to hold together the people in an independent
nation.
On my part personally I would welcome such declaration like IRA-it will at
least remove some ambiguity about what kind of nation ULFA wants. Secular is no
different from what we have now. BDesh sheltered and ISI supported (no first
hand info-just what I read from newspaper) ULFA can not afford to declare Assam
as a Hindu nation. And as it stands Islam is the most widely practiced religion
in Assam if you place it against the fragmented composite Hinduism practiced in
Assam. From what I sense from your posts, religion is not much of an issue for
some of the broad minded people. Can we do away with this Assamese language bit
also and adopt an international language like Bengali or English?
I will wait for your response on this.
CONFLICT
Your explanation of violent CONFLICT was amusing. 18 year old boy strapping
bomb on motorbike to kill himself (accidentally-no official ULFA human bomb
till now) and a sixty year old is your idea of conflict. And who are the
victims of this VIOLENT CONFLICT? The children of Dhemaji and Tinsukiya
Bihari!!. We dare not go near Indian army, so lets kill the poor laborers is
that the logic of this violent CONFLICT ULFA is waging?
Lastly I will just touch two of your points
***But, I have often said that if the ulfa or some other group was really,
really fighting for a cause, and with all sincerity, I would be the first one
to at least give them the respect they deserve (even if I do not agree with
their cause).
Mahanta da-respect , agreement, disagreement pisor kotha.
What is the cause-independent Assam? Have they shown sincerity to the cause
by removing the abstractness around the geographical limit of the entity they
are fighting for? Have they shown the sincerity to the cause by spelling out
how their independent Asom fits in with Bodoland and Kamatapur of their teen
patti mates of Bhutan camps (KLO and NDFB)? Have they shown their guts by
saying any thing on issues like Bangladeshi infiltration, balkanization of
Assam in the name of territorial councils, or humiliation of Assamese national
institution like AXX in Brahmaputa valley itself? Or we should believe that
ULFA will spell out its policies on all these after the independence is gained.
And till then we should give the respect they deserve for the cause they are
fighting??
But given their martyrdom to surrender ratio, what is the guarantee that
those who are waging this so called struggle will not make a perfect Volta face
tomorrow?
*** Surely YOUR support or for that matter of others in your camp is NOT what
ULFA has been surviving all these decades. Obviously it is from the support of
those who you do not see or prefer not to recognize when you see them. Thus
your definition of ULFA's
'sincerity' is quite irrelevant to the resolution of the conflict. IF you and
others are SEEKING a resolution to the conflict, then the question would be
WHAT are you contributing to its resolution?
Why Mahanta Da can I ask? Just because Ram da and his camp members are net
savvy you feel they would be far removed from ground realities of Assam. If you
half Ram das age-may be you will have thousands who have access to net who are
based outside Assam but whose parents , brothers, cousins are based in Assam.
The guy may be in Delhi but his brother may be a sympathizer or victim of ULFA.
JB college/JEC trained, OIL mentored guy may be in Doha earning in dollars (and
reading assamnet post during lunch breaks), but his parents in Sivsagar may be
paying the extortion amount (luxury tax as you may like to say).
Things have really changed. Cyber connectivity does not mean loss of
connectivity from Assam. And for recent immigrants like us-ami jihetu puliye
pukhai utha di aha nai-what we think is not necessarily what we see or surf but
what our friends and relatives and cousins are undergoing in Assam.
But things are different for people like you who seem to be living in a time
wrap. I dont blame you. You left Assam when Bihu ,Durga Puja and Tithis were
the only occasions celebrated in Assam. By the time we left in late
nineties-Baisagu, Chilaria Divx, Me-dam-me-phi, Ali-ai ligang were the in
things.
And now the latest-have you heard what they call -Besama?
Reply dibo dei!!!!
Regards
Chittaranjan Pathak
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