Dear Sandip: First off, it was NOT I who made the charge that 'no-body' cares about Hindu misery because it is not 'fashionable' . I have seen that 'unfashionable' explanation before, any number of times, as explanation of a lack of support for Hinduttwa and other allied issues from progressives thinkers and activists; made by partisans to those causes; no doubt to paint a portrait of those they disagree with as 'superficial' and to wrap themselves with a cloak of the underdogs.
That is why I raised the questions I did. Perhaps you would explain? *** I do have sympathy for ALL victims of discrimination. But NOT all such victims' miseries are equal. Therefore I CHOOSE who to raise my voice for or against, since I cannot be a defender of ALL victims that need help. *** Your comments about my comments regarding East Bengali Hindus' victimhood is taken out of context. That is unfortunate. s-da ---- SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dear Sondon Da, > > Thanks for the thoughtful words. However before posing the question on > whether Hindus dont care about other hindus, my question to you is: DO YOU > CARE? > > On this particular context of the alleged harrasment of Bangladeshi Hindus, I > remember seeing you saying in some post some time back that they deserve what > they get. > > I'm not sure if you are an expert on the subject of the Two Nation theory but > I have reason to beleive that this is the cause of this harrasment thats > being played out even sixty years later. > > Lastly - we cannot dismiss deep rooted caste prejudices as "impotence" of the > constitution. While your American constitution also promises you deliverance > in a free and fair society, it still has a long way to go before it can get > there. > > My heart goes out to the black victims of Hurricance Katrina. > > Rgds, > Sandip > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; assam@assamnet.org > Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2007 10:16:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Assam] Covert Genocide Of Hindus In Bangladesh > > > Ram: > > >I believe most of the Hindu targets have been other Hindus - usually lower > >castes, and in the >South the Upper Castes by other Hindus.. > > > *** We have been vaguely aware of the former problem, haven't we? Glad to see > you made that abundantly clear. Would help those who go about wearing that > cloak of Hindu victimhood. > > I was however unaware of the latter: Of the victimhood of the upper castes in > the South. While it is deplorable and worthy of sympathy, somehow it is hard > to imagine their plight, in light of widely > visible power of the upper-castes that rule not merely the south but all > over India. > > And in all of the above, the impotence of the Indian constitution, its > promises to secularism in public life and the inability of Indian democracy > in upholding those promises. > > > >> IMHO - the strength of Hinduism doesn't lie on such grounds. Rather, it > >> lies > > in deep-rooted concerns for humanity in general, Words/phrases like Ahimsa, > > Brahmacharya (self-Control), Satyam,* *'Satyam e jayte' and of our immediate > > surroundings in particular. > > > *** I will not argue your assertion. I just wished they were validated by > Sandip's charge and its implications and your own illustrations. The question > in my mind continues to linger: In spite of all those lovely and highly > evolved thoiughts, somehow, they never translated to the flock's commitments > to their fellow men. In that the proof could not be found in the pudding, > could it ? > > >> I do believe the Hindu identity is being dissolved to great extent. That is > > because of the religion's capacity to accommodate extreme belief systems > > under one umbrella. > > *** This too leaves me bafgfled . I can't seem to connect the purported cause > to the described effect :-). > > c-da > > > > > > > > > > ---- Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > C'da > > > > You do bring up some good points - I had rather dealt with the subject a bit > > superficially, one might say. > > > > But lets take what you say here: > > > > > > On 5/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Ram: > > > > > > To keep things contextual, let us go back to the subject matter: Regarding > > > it being unfashionable to care about pilght of Hindus. > > > > > > >If Hindus are persecuted because of their religious identity or prferences > > or >practices, but their plight is iognored EVEN by other Hindus, on account > > of it >not being fashionable > > > > While there have been instances (Afganisthan under the Taliban), Bangladesh > > & Pakistan where Hindus were actively persecuted and Fiji (where I believe > > the issue is "Indians" as opposed to "Hindus), I believe most of the Hindu > > targets have been other Hindus - usually lower castes, and in the South the > > Upper Castes by other Hindus.. Even in Sri Lanka - the bone of contention is > > language as opposed to religion (it may play some role there too). > > > > >that would cast a deep shadow of doubt about the strength of the HInduness > > of >ALL concerned. > > > > IMHO - the strength of Hinduism doesn't lie on such grounds. Rather, it lies > > in deep-rooted concerns for humanity in general, Words/phrases like Ahimsa, > > Brahmacharya (self-Control), Satyam,* *'Satyam e jayte' and of our immediate > > surroundings in particular. > > On the contrary, many Hindus possess an unshakeable inner strength that has > > both the ingredients of helping others (even across religious barriers), and > > at the same time keeping their often (viewed as) awkward practices alive. > > > > >If they do, whart would that tell us about the intellectual foundations > > that define >what it is being referred to as the Hindu identity? Is it an > > identity at all? > > > > I do believe the Hindu identity is being dissolved to great extent. That is > > because of the religion's capacity to accommodate extreme belief systems > > under one umbrella. Further, entry into the religion is nearly always > > difficult - ie. one has to be born into the religion. There have been some > > who say no - but generally, it ain' so. Another reason why its identity is > > depleting is because of conversions (forced and otherwise). > > I would venture that the Hindu philosophy and intellectual foundations are > > strong as ever > > > > Well, thats my take - I am sure there are a number of Hindu intellectuals on > > the net who can give it ago. But I just go by what I know, and the little > > reading on the subject. > > > > --Ram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Critiquing is one thing. But the subject under discussion is a whole lot > > > more serious. If Hindus are persecuted because of their religious identity > > > or prferences or practices, but their plight is iognored, EVEN by other > > > Hindus, on account of it not being fashionable ( a superficial trait by > > > all > > > considerations) as charged by Sandip; that would cast a deep shadow of > > > doubt > > > about the strength of the HInduness of ALL concerned. Or at least it would > > > seriously DAMAGE the humanity of those other Hindus who would not care > > > about > > > their fellow Hindus' plight. Forget about others. > > > > > > If there is truth to the charge, how can you explain that Ram? Does it > > > mean that the Hindu identity therefore is not necessarily a reliable bond? > > > That one Hindu does not necessarily care about the plight of another > > > Hindu? > > > If so would they care about another fellow human? Or that would or could > > > be > > > different if it were somebody these Hindus might conside more worthy of > > > consideration, because it might win them notice ( fashionable) if they > > > did? > > > For example one of these Hindus may not care about the plight of a fellow > > > Hindu's religious persecution, but may be perfectly willing to raise their > > > voices against the plight of a Muslim or a Buddhist or a Christian or an > > > animist or even an atheist? > > > > > > If they do, whart would that tell us about the intellectual foundations > > > that define what it is being referred to as the Hindu identity? Is it an > > > identity at all? > > > > > > If Sandip's charge has merit, it would bring the quality of the Hindu > > > faith into serious question, wouldn't it? > > > > > > c-da > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > C'da > > > > > > > > While I don't know what exactly VP meant by "fashionable", this much is > > > true > > > > through: It is very easy to critique and often ignore Hinduism - Hindus > > > do > > > > it themselves too. Few other religions can critique themselves so > > > freely. > > > > > > > > One reason could be that Hinduism represents a wide spectrum of people. > > > On > > > > the one one end you may have a group whose belief systems are strict, > > > while > > > > on the other you may some North American guru khuwa bamuns. > > > > > > > > Further, Hinduism is a practice full of holes (if one wants to view it > > > that > > > > way) and any passer by can take pot-shots with probably little or no > > > > reprisals. You can draw cartoons of any of the million Hindu Gods, write > > > > against them, and and very little will happen. > > > > > > > > While other religions also have problems in their beliefs, one has to > > > tread > > > > lightly so as not step on toes - lest you lose your head :) > > > > > > > > Lastly, the religion, is mostly very 'personal' - so it may come down to > > > ' > > > > as long as you don't disturb or insult my "singular" practice, I really > > > > don't care what you say'. > > > > > > > > And hence the "fashion" statement by VP > > > > > > > > Just my thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/21/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> No one gives a s**t because its not fashionable to side with Hindus > > > > > anywhere - be it >Bangladesh or Fiji. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** Very interesting. Did't realize it is fashion conciousness that > > > drive > > > > > people to care about others. > > > > > > > > > > But if it is the truth, WHY is it FASHIONABLE to ignore Hindus? > > > > > > > > > > There must be some plausible reasons for it. What could those be? > > > > > > > > > > cm > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---- SANDIP DUTTA <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > No one gives a s**t because its not fashionable to side with Hindus > > > > > anywhere - be it Bangladesh or Fiji. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rgds, > > > > > > SD > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > > > > > From: Pradip Kumar Datta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; assam@assamnet.org; > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]; > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Sent: Monday, May 21, 2007 2:18:42 PM > > > > > > Subject: [Assam] Covert Genocide Of Hindus In Bangladesh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Covert Genocide Of Hindus In Bangladesh > > > > > > Author: Narain Kataria > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A delegation comprising of Jiten Roy, Ph.D., President, and Bidyut > > > > > Sarkar, General Secretary, respectively, of International Federation > > > of > > > > > Bangladeshi Hindus & Friends, Mohini Sarin, a Human Rights Activist, > > > Dr. > > > > > Narinder Kukar, former National President of the Association of > > > Indians in > > > > > America and N. Kataria, Founder of Indian American Intellectuals > > > Forum, > > > > > called on Deputy Ambassador, Indian Mission, Mr. A. Gopinathan, at New > > > York > > > > > on January 20, and presented to him a memorandum documenting the > > > pitiable > > > > > plight of Hindus who are being subjected to relentless torture, > > > ghastly > > > > > murder, gang rape and forcible conversion to Islam. The memorandum > > > urged the > > > > > Indian Mission at U.N. to take up this matter seriously with the > > > > > Government of India and find a permanent solution to the state > > > sponsored > > > > > campaign aimed at ethnic-cleansing of Hindus in Bangladesh. > > > > > > The memorandum, inter alia, stated that Bangladesh, where 11,000 of > > > its > > > > > 64, 000 madrassas are constantly producing jihadis, "has become a safe > > > haven > > > > > for Islamic terrorists - - including Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters > > > fresh off > > > > > the boat from Afghanistan. " (The Time Asia Magazine Oct. 16, '02; Far > > > > > Eastern Economic Review (April 4,2002); The Wall Street Journal April > > > 2'02); > > > > > Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism/ US Department of > > > State, May > > > > > 21, 2002; Country Reports on Human Rights Practices for 2001: > > > Bangladesh, > > > > > March 2002) Time Asia Magazine, CNNews (Dec. 21, '01) New York Times > > > (Nov. > > > > > 27, '01) etc. In the past one and half years, ever since the ruling > > > > > coalition of "Islamic hardliners" (The Guardian, Oct. 2, '01) assumed > > > power > > > > > with an absolute majority, the Islamic extremists have gained enormous > > > > > strength demonstrating that they are capable of enacting several > > > Balies, if > > > > > not 9/11s. > > > > > > Earlier, using the Babri Mosque incident as a ploy to teach Hindus a > > > > > befitting lesson, Jehadis had killed 15 Hindus, raped 2600 Hindu > > > women, > > > > > razed 3,600 temples and rendered 200,000 Hindus homeless. > > > > > > Militant Islamists have looted, razed and in many cases set ablaze > > > > > dwelling houses, businesses, temples, imposed infidel protection tax, > > > > > gang/mass raped [e.g. nearly 200 Hindu women were mass raped by the > > > > > Muslims in Char Fashion in a single night (The Daily Star, Nov 16, > > > 2001); > > > > > mother and eight-year-old daughter were gang-raped together subjecting > > > the > > > > > helpless father/husband to watch such ghastly scene], brutally > > > tortured, > > > > > murdered, and left with the ultimatum:" Go to India, where you rightly > > > > > belong." Incidents of rape remain generally underreported because of > > > the > > > > > stigma attached to it, yet among the 228 rape cases reported within > > > the day > > > > > of election 225 or 98.68 % of the rape victims were Hindus and the > > > > > perpetrators belonged to the ruling parties (see, e.g., The Daily > > > > > Janakantha, Feb. 17, '02). When the victims of rape approach the > > > police > > > > > station to press charges against the gang of rapists, the commanding > > > > > officers not only refuse to accept their cases but in some cases > > > > > > also persecute the victim by detaining them in the precinct lockup > > > > > (see, e.g., The Daily Janakantha, Feb. 17, '2). > > > > > > As a result of the above-mentioned systematic persecution, Hindu > > > > > population in Bangladesh has decreased from 35% in 1947 to 10% in 2003 > > > > > > Hence, the Hindus of Bangladesh have no other alternative but to > > > demand > > > > > a permanent solution of this problem, by creating a protected region. > > > If the > > > > > Bosnian Muslims. East Timorese Christians, Srilankan Tamils, Iraqi > > > Kurds > > > > > deserve international attention, the Bangladeshi Hindus, 25 million of > > > whose > > > > > people have been driven out of the country and 2.5 million acres of > > > whose > > > > > land confiscated, deserve help find a permanent solution to their > > > problem, > > > > > too. Such a solution can never be achieved unless India intervenes, > > > like it > > > > > did in 1971 > > > > > > Narain Kataria > > > > > > 41-67 Judge Street (5P) > > > > > > Elmhurst, New York 11373 > > > > > > (718) 478-5735 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Building a website is a piece of cake. > > > > > > Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > assam mailing list > > > > > > assam@assamnet.org > > > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Be > > > > > a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who > > > knows. > > > > > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. > > > > > > http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545433 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > assam mailing list > > > > > assam@assamnet.org > > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________Shape > Yahoo! in your own image. Join our Network Research Panel today! > http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 > _______________________________________________ assam mailing list assam@assamnet.org http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
