C-da,
some time back I posted snopsis of the US study
showing that those who are comin to US have no
affinity to the country as such (it was about
international students but can be applicable to
all workers in US) or to any country - that
seems to define you as well.
You wrote:
***I probably was no different, but mercifully I
have no national identity baggage unlike you
guys that prevented me from learning; by
observing, reading, asking a lot of dumb
questions--whatever it took.
Umesh
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Re: [Assam] Banking on Banking Software
Hi Umesh:
Have you come across the term IRONY ?
Can't you see the irony in Krishnendu's offering
of Flex-Cube as India's sole contribution to
creativity ? Obviously he could not find
anything else. Even *I* could have listed more.
How simple-minded can one get?
How many Indians have bank accounts? And how has
Flex-Cube helped Indians better their lives? It
might generate more profit for American banks.
So do a great many other things that desis do
for them.
But is that even a relevant accomplishment to
wave as an example of Indian creativity,
ingenuity?
I'll go a step further: OK, fine--Flex-cube is a
genuine piece of Indian ingenuity and that is an
unchallengeable record of desi-achievements .
Good for India. But WHAT DOES THAT prove? That
Indian education fosters creativity, ingenuity?
Does it?
But people like you, Krishnendu and others like
you can reasonably be expected to be more
analytical, more discerning than you guys
present yourselves as. But I know pretty darn
well why. And I don't blame it on you guys. But
I do hold you responsible for holding your own
potentials back with the dogma of what you carry
around as national pride built on a swampy
record. I probably was no different, but
mercifully I have no national identity baggage
unlike you guys that prevented me from learning;
by observing, reading, asking a lot of dumb
questions--whatever it took.
c-da
At 10:25 PM -0700 8/25/07, umesh sharma wrote:
C-da,
Every nation has ists share of poor people . If
one group is trying to excel make some great
software that is no way linked to poor people in
the city. Do you know that even outside Harvard
campus there are plenty of homeless people and
very poor African Americans styaing in the area
between Harvard and MIT - does that detract
anything from the contributions by Harvard or
MIT to the world at large and US in particular.
***
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States
Total Number
As many as 3.5 million people experience
homelessness in a given year (1% of the entire
U.S. population or 10% of its poor), and about
842,000 people in any given
week.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States#_note-9>[10]
Familial
composition<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States#_note-10>[11]
40% are families with children—the fastest growing segment.
41% are single males.
14% are single females.
5% are minors unaccompanied by adults.
1.37 million (or 39%) of the total homeless
population are children under the age of
18.<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States#_note-11>[12]
Ethnicity<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States#_note-12>[13]
49% are
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American>African
American (compared to 11% of general population).
35% are
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race>Caucasian
(under-represented compared to 75% of general
population).
13% are
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic>Hispanic
(compared to 10% of general population).
2% are
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Americans_in_the_United_States>Native
American (compared to 1% of general population).
1% are
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian-American>Asian-American
(under-represented compared to 4% of general
population).
Umesh
Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Flexcube which is a Banking Software and considered No 1 Banking
Software in the World ...
*** I am most impressed. It was my abject ignorance that caused me to
overlook such an ingenious, earth-shattering desi-contribution to
human civilization.
Now if only 30% desis had a bank account to play with, we just might
laugh all the way to the bank.
Desi-creativity and desi-ingenuity, thy name is Krishnendu!
At 3:57 PM -0700 8/25/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty wrote:
> *** Yes, they do depend on them , to a degree. You
don't get to go
to to topmost schools on the basis of SAT or GRE
scores alone. There
What you are admiting is these tests are the "primary"
criteria. You may consider other aspects but will your
top school consider a student who scores extreme low
in SAT/GRE etc?
Since Indian students trained through Indian Education
scores good in these exams, by your argument I assume
these tests are designed to test the rote memory.
And if I was NOT wrong, can I still be right with
relying on easily
verifiable info available there?
As a matter of fact, you swing per your convenience.
For example, when Indian Press writes against your
views, you decry Indian Press but again when you find
a article criticizing India you are the first one to
highlight it.
If you think some info is easily verifiable, why pick
it from Wiki, why not from authoratative sources?
*** First off, it is NOT my education system. But it
is a far far
better one than the Indian one in many aspects.
Education has many
aspects, as ought to be clear to the educated. There
are some aspects
in which SOME Indian institutions do quite well.
Math for example.
But math excellence is not the be-all and end all of
education. Nor
is Physics or Chemistry or Stats or what have you.
Indian institutions do produce reliable workers.
But show us a few
that helped change India's conditions with their
creativity or their
ingenuity.
Let me put the question again --
"HOW Indians from Indian Educational System come up
with flying colurs in US Schools?"
As per changing India's condition, people whose eyes
are not covered with blind hatred against India should
be able to easily see how India is moving ahead
...... and I do not see a foregin hand behind this.
*** How about an encore to enlighten an English
language challenged
fellow kharkhowa? I must have missed it, if not
failed to comprehend
its complexities.
Probably it will not make any impact on an American
but I cited two examples --- Flexcube which is a
Banking Software and considered No 1 Banking Software
in the World ... and automation of Indian stock
exchange .... but again, why would an American care if
Indian export increases, the Indian market shines and
key International players make a beeline to invest in
India.
Just check the top Mutual Funds of US and most of
those invests heavily in India because , unlike you,
they believe in Indian Growth story.
--- Chan Mahanta wrote:
> >**** I thought SAT, GRE, GMAT, USMLE all are US
tests
... so your education system also depends on tests.
*** Yes, they do depend on them , to a degree. You
don't get to go
to to topmost schools on the basis of SAT or GRE
scores alone. There
again are nuances. Most big name schools would
consider a LDC
student, even if she can't quite measure up to the
standards their US
counterparts to get in. That is how many Indian
students get in to
Harvard, MIT, etc. , even though they might not
quite measure up to
the other intangibles that they weigh as predictors
of a likelihood
for success. So, unlike Indian dedication to '
testocracy' ( you
heard it here first ) as the most sophisticated tool
as a predictor
of success, the US system has other tools they use.
>>
However I won't hold that against you. One has to
> learn somewhere. I did too.
**** But creativity is NOT an essential item in
these calculations.
Because society does require skilled grunts as well.
Reliable number
crunchers, accurate paper-pushers, shrewd
manipulators -- all have a
> place in society; any society. But those societies
who have shined,
moved ahead in the world also had those creative
thinkers and doers
in their midst who could think outside the box as
the cliche' goes
and break new ground, without which you get what
>> India is. While the
jury is still out as to how creativity can be
inculcated, there are
widely accepted means out there, producing results.
And math. tables
are not it.
> Inspite of your citing numerous wiki sites (BTW
*** Was I wrong in decrying Wiki being accepted as
the authority?
What is your opinion?
And if I was NOT wrong, can I still be right with
relying on easily
verifiable info available there?
Those appear contradictory only to the simple
minded. I would have
hoped you are a cut above.
>you could not explain HOW Indians come up in flying
colours under
>YOUR education system or WHY >youreducation system
DOES NOT test
>for creativity
*** First off, it is NOT my education system. But it
is a far far
better one than the Indian one in many aspects.
Education has many
aspects, as ought to be clear to the educated. There
are some aspects
in which SOME Indian institutions do quite well.
Math for example.
But math excellence is not the be-all and end all of
education. Nor
is Physics or Chemistry or Stats or what have you.
Indian institutions do produce reliable workers.
But show us a few
that helped change India's conditions with their
creativity or their
ingenuity.
>BTW, I have earlier cited Indian innovations which
you probably
>could not comprehend ....
*** How about an encore to enlighten an English
language challenged
fellow kharkhowa? I must have missed it, if not
failed to comprehend
its complexities.
At 10:09 AM -0700 8/25/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty
wrote:
> > *** That would be the response of someone who
cannot
> > IMAGINE anything
>> beyond 'teaching and testing'.
>
>**** I thought SAT, GRE, GMAT, USMLE all are US
tests
>... so your education system also depends on tests.
>And what they test for ? To check how good a
person
>can rote? And a person who shines in these tests
(has
>exceptional rote memory) goes to the best Schools.
>
>>>>Desi-teaching is entirely devoid of introducing
the
>creative process: Of analyzing, hypothesizing,
finding
>solutions different from the expected or the given.
>
>***** Inspite of your citing numerous wiki sites
(BTW
>was it you who decried wiki a couple of days back
?)
>you could not explain HOW Indians come up in flying
>colours under YOUR education system or WHY your
>education system DOES NOT test for creativity.
>
>As usual, you are twisting, drifting away from
>original question.
>
>BTW, I have earlier cited Indian innovations which
>you probably could not comprehend .... damned
English
>:)
>
>>They can do great
>> math,
>
>Was it you who said that Indian Math foundation is
>weak ??
>
>--- Chan Mahanta wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> At 9:34 AM -0700 8/25/07, Krishnendu Chakraborty
>> wrote:
>> >hmmm... I am missing something ....
>> >
>> >so in your ideal education system you teach
>> something
>> >and test for something else ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *** That would be the response of someone who
cannot
>> IMAGINE anything
>> beyond 'teaching and testing'.
>>
>> Goes to prove my point again and again.
>>
>> Desi-teaching is entirely devoid of introducing
the
>> creative process:
>> Of analyzing, hypothesizing, finding solutions
>> >> different from the
>> expected or the given.
>>
>> It has become a cultural marker. They can do
great
>> math, play
>> walking encyclopedias , be great spelling bees,
> do
>> complex
>> engineering computations. But look at India's
>> innovations ,
>> creativity. There is nothing to show for , even
with
>> all that
> >> brain-power crunching numbers or writing complex
>> codes.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Your arguments are perfect illustrations.
>>
>>
>> Now try this too:
>>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity#History_of_the_term_and_the_concept
>>
=== message truncated ===
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