**** Here is a whole slew of arguments here that present the symptoms as the causes. But lacking time to deal with all of them, let me ask Ram just one question:
>If Assam can get a good grip on this, she can show the rest of India how it >is done. Let Assam become a model, but till then, blaming Dilli at will >doesn't get Assam anywhere (well, it actually gets worse). *** How does one propose to get the house cleaning accomplished ? What will be the steps taken and who will take them? At 12:38 PM -0600 2/15/08, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >Uttam, > >>The question was why the sudden spurt of violence in Maharashtra and >eruption of resentments >supposedly against north indians. > >The problem is not unique to Maharastra. There are two main factors playing >into this. One is politics of divisivness - its helps the Sena to no end. >The second is these politicians play with the needs and sometimes even >religious/caste dogmas. Given these ingredients, it is easy to bring the >'sons of soil' argument. > >If one were to go back into history - Hitler and Goebbles successfully made >the German people believe that the Jews were the cause of all their woes. >That kind of strategy works very well when the target is a minority group. >That is an extreme example, but water it down, change the ingredients a bit, >and you can have a Maharastra or a Gujarat any day. > >>But what are the bases of such resentments; what are the reasons of the >outbursts > >The reasons for the outbursts are as above. As for resentments, we have to >dig down deeper. Some are the results of bad policies, bureacracy in Govt. >or runaway corruption. While others are far more deep-rooted. >People in many parts of India have held deep mistrust for other groups and >for generations. > >There is mistrust between religious groups, language groups, castes, etc. >Basically, anything that makes people different, can and is used against >them so that others climb the economic/social ladder a few more steps.. > >>But excessive centralisation indicates inner weaknesses and the periphery >tends to move > >Excess of anything is lousy. But who decides where the lines ought to be >drawn or erased? Obviously it won't be C'da or myself :) > >IMHO - its very easy to say how and where these lines ought to be drawn and >who ought to be in control? >As long as there are acute economic problems, corruption, and people steeped >in religious/caste dogmas etc there will always be this unhealthy >competition. > >Again IMHO, the solution, at least for Assam might be (even under a Delhi >mandate) to clean house. Eradicate corruption, protect our all our resources >- well at least wildlife, mining and agri., make local officials from PWD & >flood control engineers to ministers and babus accountable. > >If Assam can get a good grip on this, she can show the rest of India how it >is done. Let Assam become a model, but till then, blaming Dilli at will >doesn't get Assam anywhere (well, it actually gets worse). > >--Ram da > > > >On 2/15/08, uttam borthakur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Ram Da, >> >> The question was why the sudden spurt of violence in Maharashtra and >> eruption of resentments supposedly against north indians. You are absolutely >> correct in saying that parochialism may not have any limits. ( A boy from >> Guwahati is not a local at Sivasagar when it comes to a tender or a job in >> the ONGCL). But what are the bases of such resentments; what are the reasons >> of the outbursts- whether those are sponataneous, or those engineered for >> personal gains of a few, and at whose expense? That is whether it is an >> infighting among the ruling polity where the aspirants advertise their own >> interests as the interest of the people/group they lead, or it is a mere > > fatricidal war among different groups of the people at large? Chandan Da >> perhaps is of the view that the aspirants here clamour for the share of the > > loot thrown their way by a centralised power structure that claim not to be >> so. But excessive centralisation indicates inner weaknesses and the >> periphery tends to move >> away as in a centrifuge. >> >> Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Ram: >> >> I can answer the question but I would let you figure that out >> yourself. Here is a clue: >> >> **** How did Dispur get to be what it is? >> >> If you try to work backwards from here, and if you prefer NOT to >> AVOID unpleasant questions, you will find ALL the answers you will >> ever need. And ALL the SOLUTIONS to them too. >> >> So, go get 'em Tiger :-). >> >> c-da >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 9:42 AM -0600 2/15/08, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >C'da >> > >> >>*** Until such time as India learns to recognize >> >>the differences and respect them, and let the >> >>people find their own solutions to their own >> >>issues and problems, instead of dictating from >> >>Dilli, little will change. >> > >> >OK - how far are you willing to decentralize? Should it be left to Dispur >> to >> >dictate to all of Assam? Or there be further decentralizations? >> > >> >Frankly, its hardly the system - its the people in the system who make up >> >the governance. A similar system (like in India) exists in England, and >> it >> >seems to be doing fine. >> > >> >Does Dispur understand the salient differences and problems that you harp >> >upon, existing within Assam itself ( or the NE for that matter)? >> > >> >--Ram >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >On 2/15/08, Chan Mahanta wrote: >> >> >> >> At 5:42 AM +0000 2/15/08, uttam borthakur wrote: >> >> >If those who control ARE to eradicate, then they >> >> >will not have the chance to exploit the >> >> >resentments for their own gains at the expense >> >> >of the people. So, they are out. Those who are >> >> >presently being controlled and are also the >> >> >victims SHOULD try to root out the causes of >> >> >resentments. But that is normative. Some may be >> >> >trying, but it has not borne fruit. Whether it >> >> >is possible within the present framework has >> >> >also been a moot point. 'Nana Munir Nana Mot'. >> >> >Till success is achieved, this will remain >> >> >debatable. What do you say Chandan Da? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *** Until such time as India learns to recognize >> >> the differences and respect them, and let the >> >> people find their own solutions to their own >> >> issues and problems, instead of dictating from >> >> Dilli, little will change. India will continue to >> >> totter along, fractured, unable to come together >> >> for the greater good of ALL. In the process many >> >> will lose their lives in violence, many will be >> >> uprooted, many will die untimely deaths, and a >> >> few will laugh all the way to the bank on the >> >> backs of the dispossessed waving the flags of an >> >> aspiring world power. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >Chan Mahanta wrote: > >> >> >So, resentments must be addressed. There is no >> >> >>point in trying to shoo those away. >> >> > >> >> >*** I agree. And unless there ARE simmering >> >> >resentments, they could NOT be exploited for >> >> >narrow political or personal gains to the >> >> >detriment of society. >> >> > >> >> >Now the big question is IF these resentments CAN >> >> >be eradicated under the circumstances? And if >> >> >yes, by WHO? Those who control things? Or the >> >> >controlled? What is the incentive for those who >> >> >are in control to change? >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >At 6:18 PM +0000 2/14/08, uttam borthakur wrote: >> >> >>Resentments do have bases: real or illusory or both. >> >> >> So, resentments must be addressed. There is no >> >> >>point in trying to shoo those away. >> >> >> But right now in Maharashtra, those who try to >> >> >>cash in on such resentments for their personal >> >> >>political agenda, are fomenting trouble. In >> >> >>Assam too such forces have been successfully >> >> >>hoodwinking people time and again, playing on > > >> >>people's resentments for their personal >> >> >>political agenda. >> >> >> Ultimately the persons like Raj or Bal or >> >> >>Prafulla or Tarun or Bhorot or their cronies > > > > >>gain: victims being always the same. >> >> >> >> >> >>Chan Mahanta wrote: >> >> >> >Agreed. But two wrongs don't make a right. Isn't it? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>**** No, it does not. >> >> >> >> >> >>But to deny its existence is a delusion at best. >> >> >>It is alive and well across the length and >> >> >>breadth of the sub-continent. And there are good >> > > >>reasons for it. >> >> >> >> >> >>Those who raise shrill voices singling out >> >> >>Oxomiya resentments as unique, while waving a >> >> >>mythical >> >> >>flag of equality and unity, do so either out of >> >> >>abject ignorance or malice or both. >> >> >> >> >> >>That is what I wanted to point out :-). >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>At 10:11 PM -0600 2/13/08, Alpana B. Sarangapani wrote: >> >> >>> > **** But that would not explain this, would >> >> >>>it? They are of the same race. >> >> >>>There may not be a proper word for them yet, but >> >> >>>all these go to the same group of being hateful >> >> >>>to the ones that are not from the same klan or >> >> >>>class or race or region or what have you, isn't >> >> >>>it? >> >> >>> >> >> >>>Add casteism to it and you will get a perfect >> >> >>>picture of how an Indian mind work. >> >> >>> >> >> >>>> **** And is this reminiscent of Oxomiya > >> >> >>>>resentments? If so, are the Oxomiyas unique >> >> >>>>in > their resentments, as some would have us >> >> >>>>believe > here? >> >> >>>Agreed. But two wrongs don't make a right. Isn't it? >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>>"In order to make spiritual progress you must be >> >> >>>patient like a tree and humble like a blade of >> >> >>>grass" >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> > >> > Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 15:15:09 -0600> To: >> >> >>>[email protected]> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> >> >>>Subject: Re: [Assam] What is Going in >> >> >>>Maharashtra?> > At 2:52 PM -0600 2/13/08, Alpana >> >> >>>B. Sarangapani wrote:> >Hi C'da:> >> >> What am >> >> >>>I missing?> >> >Or forgot that Indians, in >> >> >>>general, are the most > >close and >> >> > >>narrow-minded, prejudiced and racist > >people >> >> >>>alive on the face of the earth?> > > **** But >> >> >>>that would not explain this, would it? They are >> >> >>>of the same race.> > Is it cultural hegemony?> > >> >> >>>Is it economic controls?> > **** And is this >> >> >>>reminiscent of Oxomiya > resentments? If so, are >> >> >>>the Oxomiyas unique in > their resentments, as >> >> >>>some would have us believe > here?> > > **** >> >> >>>Finally, where did the much touted great > >> >> >>>Indian Unity in Diversity disappeared , from >> >> >>>its > most cosmpolitan metropolis, unless it >> >> >>>was > another Indian myth?> > >> >> >>>:-)> > > > > > > > > > > > > >> >> >> >> >> >> >"In >> >> >>>order to make spiritual progress you must >> >> >>>be > >patient like a tree and humble like a >> >> >>>blade of > >grass"> >> >> >> >> >> >> Date: Wed, >> >> >>>13 Feb 2008 14:36:00 -0600> >> >> >>>To: > >>[email protected]> From: >> >> >>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Subject: [Assam] What >> >> >>>is Going in > >>Maharashtra?> > I hadn't >> >> >>>followed what has led > >>to what I saw in the >> >> >>>ToI article > below. But I > >>am very curious >> >> >>>about claims of Indians in this > >>forum > that >> >> >>>Mumbai is the MOST cosmpolitan of > >>Indian >> >> >>>metropolitan regions, > where such > >>conflicts >> >> >>>as this does not exist.> > From > >>recent >> >> >>>outpouring of certain >> >> >>>assamnetters' > >>revulsion towards and > >> >> >> >condemnation of their > >>fellow Oxomiyas, whom >> >> >>>they perceive to be > > >>uniquely xenophobic, >> >> >>>this news is certainly > >>coming as a >> >> >>>surprise. > More so because it is > >>coming >> >> >>>from Mumbai.> > What am I >> >> >>>missing?> > > >>cm> > > > > > > > > Maha exodus: >> >> >>>10,000 north > >>Indians flee in fear> 14 Feb >> >> >>>2008, 0030 hrs > >>IST,TIMES NEWS NETWORK & > > >> >>>AGENCIES> Print Save > >>EMail Write to >> >> >>>Editor> > NASHIK/PATNA: With > >>violence >> >> >>>against north Indians in this > >>industrial > > > >> >>>town and adjoining areas showing > >>no signs of >> >> >>>abating on the second > consecutive > >>day, the >> >> >>>number of migrants fleeing for their > >>homes >> >> >>>- > mostly in Uttar Pradesh and Bihar >> >> >>>- > >>crossed 10,000, making it perhaps > one of >> >> >>>the > >>largest exodus in the country from a >> >> >>>single > >>district in > recent years.> > And >> > > >>>ironically, > >>on the second day of attacks, >> >> >>>its first victim > >>wasn't > from UP or Bihar; >> >> >>>he was from Ojhar, a > >>mere 21 km from >> >> >>>Nashik.> > Ambadas Haribhau > >>Dharrao, 55, an >> >> >>>employee of Hindustan > >>Aeronautics > Ltd, was >> >> >>>fatally wounded when > >>Maharashtra Navnirman >> > > >>>Sena activists on > > >>Wednesday attacked and >> >> >>>pelted stones at the bus > >>he was travelling >> >> >>>in.> > The violence started > >>10 days back >> >> >>>when MNS activists attacked > >>migrant > >> >> >>>workers as the Samajwadi Party held a > >>rally >> >> >>>in Mumbai.> > Since then, MNS chief >> >> >>>Raj > >>Thackeray has carried on a >> >> >>>vitriol-laced > > >>campaign against north >> >> >>>Indians, stoking > >>chauvinistic feelings and > >> >> >>>appealing to > >>Marathi >> >> >>>pride.> > > >>_______________________________________________> > >> >> >>assam >> >> >>>mailing list> >> >> >>>[email protected]> > >> >> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org> >> >> >_________________________________________________________________> >> >Need >> >> >>>to know the score, the latest news, or >> >> >>>you > >need your Hotmail(R)-get your >> >> >>>"fix".> >http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx> >> >> >_______________________________________________> >assam >> >> >>>mailing >> >> >>>list> >[email protected]> > >> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org> > > >> >> >>>_______________________________________________> >> >> >>>assam mailing list> [email protected]> >> >> >>>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >> >> >>>Climb to the top of the charts! Play the word >> >> >>>scramble challenge with star power. >> >> >>> >> >> >> http://club.live.com/star_shuffle.aspx?icid=starshuffle_wlmailtextlink_jan >> >> >>>_______________________________________________ >> >> > >>assam mailing list >> >> >>>[email protected] >> >> >>>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >> >>assam mailing list >> >> >>[email protected] >> >> >>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>Uttam Kumar Borthakur >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >>--------------------------------- >> >> > > Now you can chat without downloading messenger. Click here to know >> >> how. >> >> >>_______________________________________________ >> >> >>assam mailing list >> >> >>[email protected] >> >> >>http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >assam mailing list >> >> >[email protected] >> >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >Uttam Kumar Borthakur >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >--------------------------------- >> >> > Now you can chat without downloading messenger. 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