> >It is quite simple, Cda, some people think this is the best chance for a >African American to become the President while others think it is so for a >woman. The 'issues' etc are then piled on to justify why one would vote for >Obama or Clinton and sort of make it look like 'we voters actually do think, and vote for the best candida
*** If that were to be true, why would there have been such fiercely contested elections of the past where the contenders were all white, anglo-saxon, protestant males? At 3:24 PM -0500 3/9/08, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > >*** So It must be just like desi-demokrasy then, huh :-)? >>But not soooo fast! >>If issues were not to be involved, then why is there such a divide >>between the Democrats and Republicans? > >Ah! C'da, I should have been a bit nore detailed :) > >Yes, it is difficult to choose between two people like Clinton & Obama, and >yes, there are some differences between the Republicans & the Dems. Issues >like appointment of Supreme Court judges, 2nd Amendment and abortion and gay >marriages don't usually affect the lives of common folks. In this >discussion, I mistakenly thought we were discussing only the Dems. > >The candidates (the Dems in this case) will now concentrate on economic, >health, environment issues, and lastly the war. >But if keenly observed, the voters are more interested in voting their race >and gender. > >In this aspect, at least the "issues" are like desi demokrasy - there it is >language, caste, and religion, and of course with far fewer sophisticated >trappings, and here it is largely race and gender and then it filters down >to issues that hit home like jobs, mortgages and cost of living. > >If it wern't so, how else would one explain away the near-cult voting trends >of 85%-95%? Its almost like voting for actors such as a Amitabh Bachan or >a Sharuh Khan. Simply saying that voters find these candidates so similar, >that they tend to bring in race or gender issues is merely wishing it that >way. > >It is quite simple, Cda, some people think this is the best chance for a >African American to become the President while others think it is so for a >woman. The 'issues' etc are then piled on to justify why one would vote for >Obama or Clinton and sort of make it look like 'we voters actually do think, >and vote for the best candidate'. > > >--Ram > > >On Sun, Mar 9, 2008 at 2:30 PM, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> > >Quality and 'issues' are hardly the things voters look for when >> casting >> >their votes for someone running for office - but of course, everything >> else >> >matters. >> >> >> *** So It must be just like desi-demokrasy then, huh :-)? >> >> >> But not soooo fast! >> >> >> If issues were not to be involved, then why is there such a divide >> between the Democrats and Republicans? >> >> >> Point is that both Barack and Hillary are almost identical in their >> views on the issues the Democrats hold dear. >> >> Therefore to pick THE Democratic candidate, the Democratic voters in >> the PRIMARies do not have >> clear-cut , well defined issues that separate the two candidates to >> weigh one over the other. As a result the OTHER issues come into >> play, more than they deserve to. >> >> That IS the difference. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> At 1:04 PM -0600 3/9/08, Ram Sarangapani wrote: >> >While, I too agree that religion (like race) ought not to play any part >> in a >> >US Presidential election, it certainly does every time. >> > >> >But Obama's religion, IMHO has had very negligible effect this far. Some >> >have tried to infuse it into the fray, but with little effect. >> > >> >However, race seems to be big plus for Obama. With 85% to 95% African >> >Americans voting for him in every state, he certainly has had a big > > >advantage over Clinton. >> > >> >Women, on the other hand have voted for Clinton not more than 60% - 65% >> in >> >any state. African American women have been more true to their race than > > >their gender. >> > >> >Obama seems to now attract younger people (all races), educated, while >> >Clinton the less educated and older women. >> > >> >Quality and 'issues' are hardly the things voters look for when casting >> >their votes for someone running for office - but of course, everything >> else >> >matters. >> > >> >--Ram >> > >> > >> >On 3/9/08, Chan Mahanta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> >> >> At 10:52 AM -0700 3/9/08, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote: >> >> >Do you think Obama will have the courage to say, "I am a practising >> >> Christian. >> >> >> >> >> >> *** It is NOT about COURAGE. >> >> >> >> Imagine you or I having to dignify an outrageous >> >> charge or scurrilous innuendo, every time a bigot >> >> or a fool or a charlatan makes it? >> >> >> >> Why should an US president's religion be an >> >> election issue? I know it becomes one, every >> >> time. But that is because candidates succumb to >> >> pressures from religious bigots . >> >> >> >> Obama may have to too. But I hope he would NOT. >> >> And if he gets the nomination and gets elected as >> >> the next president, without having to answer to >> >> such questions or charges, just like without >> >> having to wear an US Flag on his lapel or place >> >> his hand over his heart while saying the Pledge >> >> of Allegiance, >> >> it will mark a historic turn of the American >> >> nation to a truly sophisticated one. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >And so what if Hillary Clinton, John McCain or I >> >> >were a Muslim?". If he says it, will he gain >> >> >voters or lose them? >> >> > Dilip >> >> > ================================================================ >> >> > From the NYT >> >> > Op-Ed Columnist >> >> > Obama and the Bigots By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Published: March 9, 2008 >> >> > The ugliest prejudices in this campaign >> >> >season are not directly about race. Barack >> >> >Obama's skin color may cost him some >> >> >working-class white voters, but it's also >> >> >winning some votes among blacks and among whites >> >> >eager to signal their open-mindedness. >> >> > >> >> > Sexism seems more of a factor. Americans have >> >> >typically said in polls that they are less >> >> >willing to vote for a woman than a black, and >> >> >Shirley Chisholm (a black woman who ran for >> >> >president in 1972) always said that she >> >> >encountered more prejudice because of her sex >> >> >than her race. >> >> > Yet the most monstrous bigotry in this >> >> >election isn't about either race or sex. It's >> >> >about religion. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > The whispering campaigns allege that Mr. Obama >> >> >is a secret Muslim planning to impose Islamic >> >> >law on the country. Incredibly, he is even >> >> >accused - in earnest! - of being the Antichrist. >> > > > Proponents of this theory offer detailed >> > > >theological explanations for why he is the >> >> >Antichrist, and the proof is that he claims to >> >> >be Christian - after all, the Antichrist would >> >> >say that, wouldn't he? The rumors circulate >> >> >enough that Glenn Beck of CNN asked the Rev. >> >> >John Hagee, a conservative evangelical, what the >> >> >odds are that Mr. Obama is the Antichrist. >> >> > These charges are fanatical, America's own >> >> >equivalent of the vicious accusations about Jews >> >> >that circulate in some Muslim countries. They >> >> >are less a swipe at one candidate than a calumny >> >> >against an entire religion. They underscore that >> >> >for many bigoted Americans in the 21st century, >> >> >calling someone a Muslim is still a slur. >> >> > There is a parallel with presidential >> >> >campaigns in the 19th and early 20th centuries, >> >> >when one of the most common ways to attack a >> >> >candidate was to suggest that he was partly >> >> >black, or at least favored racial intermarriage. >> >> >For example, the Federalists charged that Thomas > > >> >Jefferson was "the son of a half-breed Indian >> >> >squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father." And >> >> >the word "miscegenation" was coined in 1863 and > > >> >1864 in charges that Abraham Lincoln secretly >> >> >plotted for blacks to marry whites, especially >> >> >Irish-Americans. >> >> > As late as the 1920 presidential campaign, a >> >> >quarter-million letters were sent to voters >> >> >accusing Warren Harding of being descended from >> >> >a "West Indian Negro. ... May God save America >> >> >from international shame and domestic ruin." >> >> > In looking back at that history, you wish that >> >> >a candidate had responded not only with, "No, I >> >> >don't have any black ancestor," but also with, >> >> >"So what if I did?" >> >> > Likewise, with countless people today >> >> >spreading scurrilous rumors that Mr. Obama is a >> >> >Muslim, the most appropriate response is a >> >> >denial followed by: And so what if he were? >> >> > Granted, that's not politically realistic as a >> >> >comeback. A 2007 Gallup poll found that 94 >> >> >percent of Americans said they would vote for a >> >> >black candidate for president and 88 percent for >> >> >a woman. In contrast, a Los Angeles Times poll >> >> >in 2006 found that only 34 percent of >> >> >respondents said they could vote for a Muslim >> >> >for president. >> >> > Even if a prejudice is directed to a matter of >> >> >choice, like religion or long hair, it's still >> >> >prejudice. It's possible to believe that >> >> >Catholics have every right to be president while >> >> >opposing a particular Catholic candidate who >> >> >would ban contraception; likewise, it's possible >> >> >to believe that Muslims have every right to hold >> >> >office without necessarily embracing the >> >> >candidacy of particular Muslims who advocate >> >> >enveloping all women in burkas. >> >> > To his credit, Mr. Obama has spoken >> >> >respectfully of Islam (he told me last year, on >> >> >the record, that the Muslim call to prayer is >> >> >"one of the prettiest sounds on earth at >> >> >sunset"). If he were to go further - "and so >> >> >what if I were Muslim?" - many Americans would >> >> >see that as confirmation that he is a Sunni >> >> >terrorist agent of Al Qaeda who is part of a >> >> >9/11 backup plan: If you can't reach the White >> >> >House with a hijacked plane, then storm the Oval >> >> >Office through the ballot box. >> >> > This is a case where Hillary Rodham Clinton >> >> >and John McCain should take the initiative and >> >> >denounce the fear-mongering about Mr. Obama as >> >> >hate speech. The wink-wink references to "Barack >> >> >Hussein Obama" and lies about his going to a >> >> >madrassa are the religious equivalent of racial >> >> >slurs, and Mr. McCain and Mrs. Clinton should >> >> >denounce them in the strongest terms. This is >> >> >their chance to show leadership. >> >> > When Mrs. Clinton was asked in a television >> >> >interview a week ago whether Mr. Obama is a >> >> >Muslim, she denied it firmly - but then added, >> >> >most unfortunately, "as far as I know." To his >> >> >credit, Mr. McCain scolded a radio host who >> >> >repeatedly referred to "Barack Hussein Obama" >> >> >and later called him a Manchurian candidate. >> >> > Martin Luther wasn't a model of tolerance but >> >> >even he took the position that, "I'd rather be >> > > >ruled by a wise Turk than a foolish Christian." >> > > >In this presidential campaign, we should at >> >> >least aspire to be as open-minded as >> >> >16th-century Germans. >> >> > >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >> >assam mailing list >> >> >[email protected] >> >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> >> assam mailing list >> >> [email protected] >> >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> >_______________________________________________ >> >assam mailing list >> >[email protected] >> >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ > > assam mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org >> >_______________________________________________ >assam mailing list >[email protected] >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org _______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
