You are taking shelter under the fallacy that two wrongs make a right.The fact that most politicians are corrupt does not mean that Bora has one right to fill his pocket with ill-gotten money.The issue of corruption,a vital one,is a different kettle of fish .After scanning media reports,I don't find an iota of indication that the sting operation was carried out on account of personal vendetta.What I do best is collate information and draw my own inference. KJD
On 6/4/08, Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >We all know that.We also know that India is a democratic country and one > >should be skeptical pending full disclosure of facts.But we are not > focusing >on that point nor are we trying to figure out who is the > flash-bearer of >corruption in Assam. > > And why not? > > >The bottom line is--- Bora was apprehended because of the fact > >that he did something wrong. > > Really, the others don't do anything wrong? Or is it they simply did not > get > caught, and Bora did? IMHO Bora's crime was being stupid to get caught or > getting placed in a situation where he could be ID ed. > > Bribery, corruption and whatever else are really what is expected from > ministers, babus.. all the way to keranis, and are not really crimes :) > > >We must measure the entire episode in a scale of probability at this stage > >and our opinion ought to be based on that. > > And what are we measuring here? That Bora is corrupt? Or that he got caught > redhanded? > > Deka, bottom line is really this: > > If Bora is convicted, he deserves whatever punishment is meted out. > > And I would be really elated that with Bora now arrested (and later > convicted), that corruption and bribery will forever be banished from Assam > - specially among our montris and MLAs. > > > On 6/4/08, kamal deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Given even half a chance,every politician will rob the country blind.We > all > > know that.We also know that India is a democratic country and one should > be > > skeptical pending full disclosure of facts.But we are not focusing on > that > > point nor are we trying to figure out who is the flash-bearer of > corruption > > in Assam.The bottom line is--- Bora was apprehended because of the fact > > that he did something wrong.We must measure the entire episode in a scale > > of > > probability at this stage and our opinion ought to be based on that. > > > > Every major organization,editorial notes of both vernacular and English > > dailies and public at large did voice their views in protest.One should > not > > expect citizens to rock the state with agitation over such issue. > > > > KJD > > > > > > On 6/4/08, Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Kamal Deka, > > > > > > You may be absolutlely correct in saying the Ripun Bora is corrupt and > > evil > > > etc etc. > > > The bigger picture ought to be that India is a democracy, and a country > > of > > > laws and that is what needs to be held up - not that some minister is > > > corrupt or whatever, and got convicted because people dislike him. BTW > > the > > > CBI is also supposed to be very corrupt. > > > > > > So, we wait till the montri is convicted, we don't set traps (commonly > > > known > > > as entrapment - which I think is also illegal in India). If after all > > that, > > > he is found guilty, then by all means throw away the key. > > > > > > BTW: Do you know which montri is less corrupt and you are willing to > > slide > > > by, or whom we can all put up on a pedestal? > > > > > > Frankly, there is a huge cabal of corrupt ministers, of corrupt CBI > > > officers, of departments etc, and yet, we find it easy to point only > one > > > corrupt person - the guy who gets caught. > > > > > > I have a totally different view of the VC. But suffice it to say, that > > the > > > first time he threatened to resign, everyone, including the AASU and > the > > > Governor begged him to stay on. He got the money from the Govt., and > then > > > threatened to resign again - only this time no one protested. > > > > > > Just to let you know where I stand, when Dr. C was first chosen, I was > > very > > > elated, and thought at least now GU would be under a good stewardship. > > > > > > >Even a child in Assam knows that the ministry of education is the > > > >epicenter of corruption. > > > > > > OK - did Ripun Bora start this? It is probably the best for us to put > > > everything corrupt in Assam on Bora - after all, he is the one that > > caught, > > > right? > > > > > > --Ram > > > > > > On 6/4/08, kamal deka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Ram Sarangapani, > > > > Assuming that the trap was set up by the CBI,why did Ripun dangariya > > walk > > > > into it? > > > > In regard to the opinion inflicted by Bora in connection with Dr > > > > Choudhury's > > > > resignation,he was trying to build a temple of virtue by laying all > > evils > > > > at > > > > him.Even a child in Assam knows that the ministry of education is the > > > > epicenter of corruption. > > > > KJD > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/4/08, Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hi Uttam, > > > > > > > > > > You make some very valid points and its a well-thought out > response, > > > and > > > > I > > > > > understand where you are coming from. > > > > > > > > > > I am not aware of what exactly took place between Ripun > > Bora and Dr. > > > > > Choudhury - all I know is that he resigned. So, I really cannot > > comment > > > > > much > > > > > on that. > > > > > > > > > > >Ram Da, you eulogised the wisdom and the action of the INDIAN > STATE > > > > based > > > > > on a single >unverified report on SHG. > > > > > > > > > > I hope it wasn't anything to that extreme, but I sure did want to > > point > > > > out > > > > > that Dilli does do some good here & there. I perfectly understand > > > Dilli's > > > > > failings. From here, I have no way to verify reports - all we have > is > > > > media > > > > > reports online. > > > > > And notwithstanding what C'da says, it is ultimately 'us' that make > > the > > > > > decision whether such reports have some validity or not. > > > > > And you are right, many of us in far off lands do get euphoric with > > any > > > > > morsel of good news from the home front > > > > > > > > > > I wanted to bring up Ripun Bora's case because I did see a > different > > > > > treatment to his case. Many were quick to condemn him, and I > thought > > > that > > > > > *even > > > > > you* may not have given him the benefit of doubt. I am glad, that I > > was > > > > > wrong, and you really were not thinking along those lines, and I > > > > apologize. > > > > > > > > > > Today the papers carry 'irrefutable proof' and have for all > practical > > > > > purposes convicted him. > > > > > The CM has thrown him under the bus (which is as expected), and I > > > expect > > > > > Bora will more than likely be convicted - all I was expecting a > court > > > of > > > > > law > > > > > saying so. > > > > > > > > > > In this respect, I agree with C'da. In India (as C'da has pointed > out > > > > with > > > > > examples), the idea of due process is often lost, specially when we > > > > utterly > > > > > dislike an individual. > > > > > > > > > > --Ram da > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/3/08, uttam borthakur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Ram Da > > > > > > > > > > > > I was not indicting Ripun Bora at all.. If you re-read, you shall > > see > > > > > that > > > > > > my sole emphasis was about his comments on Dr. Amarjyoti > Choudhury. > > > > Some > > > > > > people kowtowed his line in holding Dr. Choudhury responsible for > > > > > chickening > > > > > > out. In fact, I did not like this kind of diatribe, because it is > > Dr. > > > > > > Choudhury's liberty of taking a decision that was under fire. And > > my > > > > > > aversion towards Ripun Bora kind of politicians is not borne out > of > > > > this > > > > > > news item, but personal experiences over so many years. Ram Da, > you > > > > > > eulogised the wisdom and the action of the INDIAN STATE based on > a > > > > single > > > > > > unverified report on SHG. We have seen that there are some SHGs > > that > > > > are > > > > > > good and sincere and have taken up where the INDIAN STATE has > > > abdicated > > > > > its > > > > > > earlier responsibilities; but most are rotten and are after a > fast > > > > buck. > > > > > > One thing in that news item struck me: mention of Rs.10, 00, > 000/- > > as > > > > the > > > > > > profit for the year. It is pretty difficult in Assam unless the > > > extent > > > > of > > > > > > the land is substantial. Now getting > > > > > > possession of substantial land by a group of persons having a > > history > > > > of > > > > > > retail trade of terror and then changing sides is something that > is > > > > > smelly. > > > > > > Many people have returned rich from the ranks and some have used > > > their > > > > > > history to intimidate unarmed people to grab land and other > > > resources. > > > > > That > > > > > > was my concern and that was what I told you. The only known > history > > > of > > > > > the > > > > > > person concerned is that he has deserted the ranks of a fighting > > > outfit > > > > > and > > > > > > is capable of intimidation. Ripun Bora, in contrast, has a > > wellknown > > > > > history > > > > > > and we can come to some highly probabilistic conclusion ( none > can > > > > judge > > > > > > himself for sure till death) about Sri Bora, cannot we? Ram Da, > it > > is > > > > my > > > > > > request that a question or a comment should take colour from the > > > > context > > > > > and > > > > > > should not be dealt with torn from such context. > > > > > > > > > > > > Ram Sarangapani <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi C'da, > > > > > > > > > > > > >*** 'Any more'? Come now Ram, WHEN was it reliable ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Well, let me put it this way, we often consider it reliable when > we > > > > chose > > > > > > to > > > > > > do so. We have all seen (on this net) many of us have over the > > years > > > > sent > > > > > > links from the news media from Assam as well as the rest of India > > > > > whenever > > > > > > it seems to echo their own views. > > > > > > > > > > > > >*** I think the bigger urge is the need to feel good about India > > > > > > >doing good by Assam and thus the attempt at groping at every > straw > > > > > > >that floats by :-). > > > > > > > > > > > > Could be, could be. But I suspect it is a far milder one than > that > > > > > > vitriolic > > > > > > urge to bash India at every opportunity :) > > > > > > > > > > > > Look at this Ripun Bora case. Many of us, are more than willing > to > > > bury > > > > > the > > > > > > montri because of the arrest. Are we jumping to conclusions? > > > > > > > > > > > > Even Uttam, who so wisely cautioned me 'not to get euphoric or > > > > depressed' > > > > > > at > > > > > > the drop of a hat, has, I suspect, already convicted Ripun > (before > > > the > > > > > > trial). :). > > > > > > > > > > > > After reading some of the news reports (I am hoping that these > are > > > > > > reliable), and I am sure now that many have deemed them reliable, > > > that > > > > > must > > > > > > be the case.... > > > > > > > > > > > > One guy was arrested at Guwahati, taken back to Delhi, and claims > > he > > > as > > > > > > bribing on behalf of Ripun Bora. And so they arrested the montri? > > > > > > I am surprised that a claim by a 3rd person can bring down a > > montri. > > > > > > > > > > > > This morning I called some of my own 'reliable sources' at > > Guwahati. > > > > They > > > > > > ALL felt that this was a setup and the CBI thing stinks to high > > > heaven, > > > > > and > > > > > > that Bora has many political foes (even within the Congress), and > > > > lastly > > > > > > that he has been doing good as an Education minister. > > > > > > (not my opinions - I know very little of the ground situation). > > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe it is all true, and maybe it isn't - but I would like to > wait > > > and > > > > > see > > > > > > how all this ends up, but more importantly, I would like to be > fair > > > and > > > > > > give > > > > > > the minister a chance to defend himself. > > > > > > > > > > > > But this much I am fairly sure of - almost all politicians thrive > > on > > > > > bribes > > > > > > and corruption, and it is only a question of degrees. > > > > > > > > > > > > --Ram > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 6/3/08, Chan Mahanta wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >It is quite difficult to decipher from here what is > > > > > > > >"behind" any news item anymore. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** 'Any more'? Come now Ram, WHEN was it reliable ? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > *** I think the bigger urge is the need to feel good about > India > > > > > > > doing good by Assam and thus the attempt at groping at every > > straw > > > > > > > that floats by :-). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > At 11:08 PM -0500 6/2/08, Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > > > > > >Hi Uttam, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >You are correct. It is quite difficult to decipher from here > > what > > > is > > > > > > > >"behind" any news item anymore. > > > > > > > >But, we take them as they come and there aren't too many ways > to > > > > > > > cross-check > > > > > > > >news items. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--Ram da > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On 6/2/08, uttam borthakur wrote: > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Ram Da > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Will it not be prudent to get all the facts together before > > > > getting > > > > > > > >> euphoric? You know as well as all of us do that 'SHG' is not > a > > > > magic > > > > > > > wand. > > > > > > > >> The land acquired by the SHG( the process), the initial > funds > > > > raised > > > > > > by > > > > > > > >> them( the process) may not be accessible to a poor farmer in > > > Assam > > > > > > > without a > > > > > > > >> history like the person in question and his cohorts have. So > > let > > > > us > > > > > > not > > > > > > > >> repeat the bane of being euphoric or depressed too fast. > These > > > > days > > > > > > > news > > > > > > > >> reports are also not very innocuous. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Ram Sarangapani wrote: > > > > > > > >> Now, here is some great, positive news! > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> And for those of us who see everything is wrong with Dilli, > > the > > > > > > > >> Swarnjayanti > > > > > > > >> Gram Swarozgar Yojana initiated by Dilli is doing wonders. > > > > > > > >> Highlights mine. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> --Ram > > > > > > > >> ____________ > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Self-help groups in Assam transform rural economy (Feature) > > > > > > > >> June 1st, 2008 - 12:59 pm ICT by admin - > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> By Syed Zarir Hussain > > > > > > > >> Nagaon (Assam), June 1 (IANS) Karuna Kalita was once an > > > explosives > > > > > > > expert > > > > > > > >> with the terror group United Liberation Front of Asom > (ULFA). > > > But > > > > he > > > > > > > got > > > > > > > >> fed > > > > > > > >> up with life in the jungles and surrendered in 2003. He > opted > > > for > > > > a > > > > > > new > > > > > > > >> life > > > > > > > >> by forming a self-help group (SHG). The 36-year-old former > > > rebel, > > > > > who > > > > > > > is a > > > > > > > >> father of two, is today into mechanised farming, growing > paddy > > > in > > > > an > > > > > > > acre > > > > > > > >> of > > > > > > > >> land, besides cultivating cabbage, mustard, and bhut jolokia > - > > > the > > > > > > > hottest > > > > > > > >> chilli on earth - at his native Dhing village in the central > > > Assam > > > > > > > district > > > > > > > >> of Nagaon. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> "I have 12 other members in my SHG and we are working hard. > > Last > > > > > year > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > >> earned about Rs.1 million," Kalita said before he jumped > into > > > his > > > > > > > tractor > > > > > > > >> and set off for work. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >From former separatists to housewives to educated but > > > unemployed > > > > > > > youths, > > > > > > > >> thousands of people in the northeastern state of Assam are > > > pushing > > > > > > > >> micro-enterprises into profitable business ventures, thereby > > > > turning > > > > > > > around > > > > > > > >> the region's rural economy. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> There are more than 90,000 SHGs working in diverse fields in > > > rural > > > > > > > Assam - > > > > > > > >> the whopping number being an indicator of the success of the > > > > central > > > > > > > >> government-aided venture in working towards development and > > > > boosting > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> rural economy. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> "Earlier, earning Rs.3,000 per month was unthinkable. But > now > > > > after > > > > > > > setting > > > > > > > >> up an SHG, I and my seven friends are not only earning but > > also > > > > > > > encouraging > > > > > > > >> others like us to do something and earn a living," said > > > Nandeswar > > > > > > > Dihingia, > > > > > > > >> a college dropout in Dhing. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> *The concept of SHGs got a major impetus after New Delhi > > > launched > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> Swarnjayanti Gram Swarozgar Yojana (SGSY) - a programme > aimed > > at > > > > > > > bringing > > > > > > > >> families above the poverty line by ensuring a sustainable > > level > > > of > > > > > > > >> **income* > > > > > > > >> * over a period of time.* > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> "The SHG scheme has led to a silent economic revolution > > sweeping > > > > > > > through > > > > > > > >> rural Assam. This is a good sign as people are getting > > involved > > > in > > > > > > > self- > > > > > > > >> enterprise," > > > > > > > >> Chief Minister Tarun Gogoi told IANS. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> *Under the programme, SHGs can avail themselves of > assistance > > in > > > > the > > > > > > > form > > > > > > > >> of > > > > > > > >> **bank loans* > > > > > > > >> *, supported by back-ended government subsidy - a group can > > > avail > > > > > > > itself of > > > > > > > >> a government subsidy up to Rs.125,000.* > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >From dairy to mechanised farming, weavin, poultry, food > > > > processing > > > > > > > >> unitsand > > > > > > > >> mushroom cultivation, people in Assam's countryside are busy > > > > setting > > > > > > > > > up > > > > > > > >> micro-enterprises by forming SHGs. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> "We are now self-reliant and able to speak with our heads > > high," > > > > > said > > > > > > > >> Rupanjali Gharphulia. Rupanjali along with a dozen-odd > > > housewives > > > > > had > > > > > > > >> opened > > > > > > > >> a poultry farm with bank loans and is today making a > > substantial > > > > > > > profit. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> *The self-help group movement has indirectly come to perform > > the > > > > > role > > > > > > > of > > > > > > > >> peacemaker in a state where militancy is a problem*. > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> *"One can only hope this movement indirectly helps solve the > > > > > region's > > > > > > > >> growing unemployment problem, which in turn could tame > > > insurgency > > > > in > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > >> state," Assam Panchayat and Rural Development Minister > Chandan > > > > > Brahma > > > > > > > >> said.* > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > >> assam mailing list > > > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > > > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Uttam Kumar Borthakur > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> --------------------------------- > > > > > > > >> Has your work life balance shifted? Find out. > > > > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > >> assam mailing list > > > > > > > >> [email protected] > > > > > > > >> http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > > > > > >assam mailing list > > > > > > > >[email protected] > > > > > > > >http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > assam mailing list > > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > assam mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Uttam Kumar Borthakur > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > From Chandigarh to Chennai - find friends all over India. Click > > > here. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > assam mailing list > > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > assam mailing list > > > > > [email protected] > > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > assam mailing list > > > > [email protected] > > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > assam mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > assam mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > > > _______________________________________________ > assam mailing list > [email protected] > http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org > _______________________________________________ assam mailing list [email protected] http://assamnet.org/mailman/listinfo/assam_assamnet.org
