Jugal:
My question is, if we are simply writing Assamese in Roman script, why we have to address the original Assamese SPELLING? What purpose it will serve?
I understand that if we write Assamese FONTS, we need to write in traditional Assamese spelling.
If you will answer this, I will know what is your point. Otherwise, I am really confused what you are trying to achieve.
Thanks
Rajen Barua
>From: J Kalita <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: [Assam] Transliteration Of Assamese Sounds
>Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 21:52:59 -0600 (MDT)
>
>Rajen da,
>
>Either one is not enough. Both sound and spelling have to be addressed
>to some extent. I see one solution where in some contexts, we use "a"
>and in some other contexts, we use "o" for the first vowel. Based on the
>context, the processing needs to be uniquely done.
>
>The problem you mention is a problem in every language of the world. It
>happens
>in every language to some extent. So, Assamese is not so special that
>there is no one to one correspondence between the letters in the
>alphabet and the sounds that can be produced on its behalf. It's contextual.
>So, we can think of one-to-many mappings for some letters.
>
>Jugal
>
>
> >
> > Jugal:
> > I have already replied on this. Please note that in Assamese we cannot
> > evolve a system of phonetics corresponding to
> > each Assamese letter because there is none. We can do
> > either one. If we do the orthography, we will have learn the
> > pronounciation of each word separately like we do it in English. We
> > cannot bring the phonetics to the Assamese and try to mix it with the
> > letters. Once this conception is clear, then we can proceed. Rajen Barua
> > >From: J Kalita
> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >To:
> > >Subject: Re: [Assam] Transliteration Of Assamese Sounds
> > >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 17:00:59 -0600 (MDT)
> > >
> > >Rajen da and Chandan da,
> > >
> > >We can't just stick to phonetics as you suggest. What makes
> > phonetics more >important than orthography or spelling? Both have to
> > be taken >into consideration. Ignoring either one is not an option.
> > I know >Rajen da's proposal about transliteration tries to focus
> > only >on the sounds of the language, but not the spelling. Rajen
> > da's >proposal also tends to produce several consonants in sequence
> > >making the language look unnatural and harsh!
> > >
> > >The fact that we are typing on the computer immediately means
> > >to me that we are going to have to respect orthography too, the best
> > >we can. The act of typing is nothing different from writing by
> > hand, >and when one types or writes, one cannot ignore orthography
> > or spelling >totally.
> > >
> > >Use:
> > >----
> > >1) I clearly see use in being able to type in the normal keyboard.
> > >I have a Mac and have Assamese fonts on it, but it's too time
> > consuming >and cumbersome. I would gladly type in Assamese if I
> > could
> > >type English transliteration and then highlight the area
> > >and convert it into Assamese fonts. I can type fairly quickly
> > >in English and then, if by just two simple operations, I can
> > >covert it to Assamese, I will do so often.
> > >
> > >2) The use would be for Assamese people to type Assamese on the
> > >computer. It's not for non-Assamese people, it's for people like you
> > and >me, and those in Assam who have computers with Roman keyboard,
> > >and want to type Assamese without buying a new keyboard and covering
> > >it up with stickers with Assamese letters. Many people are buying
> > >computers in Assam these days and I don't know anyone who
> > >has an Assamese keyboard or an extra keyboard with Assamese
> > >stickers all over, like I used to have. Soon a lot of educated
> > people >in Assam will have computers and without a good
> > transliteration scheme, >they will stop writing or typing Assamese,
> > a grave loss to the language >and our culture. If most people in
> > Assam start
> > >using English in email and chatting, ]it could, in the worst case,
> > lead >to loss of written material in Assamese in the future.
> > >
> > >Rabin Deka's Internet Ratne fonts are fairly intuitive to type.
> > >I downloaded them a while ago to type for Axomi. For non-juktakhors
> > >it was nice and intuitive, but then for juktakhors it became
> > >complicated. Rabin, if he wishes, can easily add a
> > highlight-and-convert >plugin to Microsoft Word or some program like
> > that, I think.
> > >
> > >Jugal Kalita
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Nice work. However, one need to stick to basic Assamese
> > phonetics. > > Please note that Assamese has EIGHT (8)
> > vowel sounds although we have > > more letters. Against this the
> > English language has 22 vowel > > sounds. Please note that
> > in Assamese HORSO E & DIRGHO E , HORSO U > > & DIRGHO U
> > etc have the same sounds. (Please read Dr Banikanta > > Kakaoty
> > and others). Please see my comments below: >From: "S Saikia" >
> > > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > >Subject: [Assam] Transliteration Of Assamese Sounds >
> > > >Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2003 13:38:57 -0500
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >hi all.....
> > > > >
> > > > >In order to overcome the obstacles in the transliteration
> > of > > >Assamese words I propose the following transliteration
> > scheme mostly > > >based on the standard devanagari ITRANS
> > transliteration charts. > > This >scheme is not meant for use
> > in software program just becaue it > > is >too complicated and
> > scores of mor practical systems can be > > figured >out to do
> > the same ... The following is based on the sound > > of the
> > >letter in International Phonetic Alphabet and its equivalent >
> > >
> > > > >_expression_ in English and can be used to write Assamese
> > words in > > >English...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >VOWELS
> > > > >-------------
> > > > >
> > > > >Transliteration Suggested Sound/IPA _expression_
> > > > >-------------------
> > ----------------------------------------------- > > >
> > > >
> > > > >a ................ Near-Open Central Unrounded(Inverted
> > a) > > CAN BETTER BE REPRESENTED BY O
> > > >
> > > > >aa ............... Open Front Unrounded (Lower case a)
> > > > CAN BETTER BE REPRESENTED BY A THUS AVOIDING USE
> > OF DOUBLE > > LETTER.
> > > >
> > > > >i .................. Close Front Unrounded (Lower case
> > i) > > NO COMMENT
> > > > >ii or I ........ Close Central Unrounded (Barred i) >
> > >
> > > > IN ASSAMESE WE DONOT HAVE A SEPARATE SOUND FOR DIRGHO E. BOTH
> > THE Es ARE > > PRONOUNCED SAME. >u .............. Close Back
> > Rounded (Lower case u) > > NO COMMENT
> > > > >uu or U ........ Close Back Un-Rounded (Turned m) (???)
> > > >
> > > > IN ASSAMESE WE DONOT HAVE A SEPARATE SOUND FOR DIRGHO U. BOTH
> > THE Us ARE > > PRONOUNCED SAME. >rri or R^i ..... Near- Close
> > Front Un-Rounded > > (Small Capital I) NOW A DAYS THIS LETTER IS
> > NOT WRITTEN IN ASSAMESE > > LANGUAGE.
> > > >
> > > > >e .............. Open- Mid Front Unrounded (Epsilon) >
> > > NO COMMENTS
> > > >
> > > > >ai ............. Close-Mid Central ROunded (Barred O )
> > > > THIS IS ACTUALLY A DIPHTHONG. MAY BE WRITTEN AS OI>o
> > ............. > > Close- Mid Back Rounded (Lower Case O )
> > > >
> > > > MAY BE WRITTEN AS W. THIS SOUND IS NOT THERE IN ENGLISH, NOR
> > IN HINDI OR > > BENGALI. >au ............. Close- Mid Back
> > Unrounded (Baby Gamma ) > > AGAIN IT IS A DIPTHONG. NOT A BASIC
> > VOWEL.
> > > > IN ADDITION TO THE ABOVE, ASSAMESE HAS THE FOLLOWING TWO
> > ADDITIONAL > > VOWEL SOUNDS. O' = KO'LA (BLACK) AS OPPOSED TO
> > KOLA (DEAF) > > E'= BE'L (BELL) AS OPPOSED TO BEL (FRUIT)
> > > > Thanks
> > > > Rajen Barua
> > > > >
> > > > >CONSONANTS
> > > > >--------------------
> > > > >
> > > > >Transliteration Suggested Sound/IPA Symbol
> > > > >--------------------
> > ------------------------------------------ > > >
> > > > >ka ............. Voiceless Velar Plosive (Lower Case K)
> > > > >kha ............ Aspirated Ka(???????)
> > > > >ga ............. Voiced Velar Plosive (Lower case g) >
> > > >gha ............ Aspirated ga (????????)
> > > > >nna or N^a ..... Voiced Uvular Nasal (Small Capital N)
> > > > >cha ............ Voiceless Aveolar Fricative (Lower Case
> > s) > > >chha ........... Voiceless Post-Aveolar Fricative
> > (Esh) > > >ja ............. Voiced Postaveolar Fricative
> > (Yogh) > > >jha ............ Palatalised ja ( ja^j)
> > > > >jjnna or JNa ... Voiced palatal Nasal(Left tail N at left)
> > > > >tta or Ta ...... Voiceless Aveolar Plosive (Lower case T)
> > > > >ttha or Tha .... Aspitated Ta (tta^h)
> > > > >dda or Da ...... Voiced Aveolar Plosive (Lower case D)
> > > > >ddha or Dha .... Aspirated Da (dda^h)
> > > > >nna or Na....... Voiced Aveolar Nasal(Lower Case N) >
> > > >ta ............. Voiceless Retroflex Plosive (T with Right
> > Tail) > > >tha ............ Aspirated ta (ta^h)
> > > > >da ............. Voiced Retroflex Plosive (Right Tail D)
> > > > >dha ............ Aspirated da(da^h)
> > > > >na ............. Voiced Retrofelx nasal (N with right
> > tail) > > >pa ............. Voiceless Bilabial Plosive (Lower
> > Case p) > > >pha ............ Voiceless Bilabial Fricative
> > (Phi) > > >ba ............. Voiced Bilabial Plosive (Lower
> > Case b) > > >bha ............ Voiced Bilabial Fricative (Beta)
> >
> > > > >ma ............. Voiced Bilabial Nasal (Lower Case M)
> > > > >ya ............. Voiced palatal Fricative (Curly Tail J)
> > > > >ra ............. Voiced Aveolar Approximant (Turned R)
> > > > >la ............. Voiced Aveolar Lateral Approximant (Lower
> > Case L) > > >wa ............. Voiced Retroflex Lateral
> > Approximant(l with > > >tail)(?)
> > > > >xha ............ Voiceless Labiodental Fricative (Lower
> > Case F) > > >xhha ........... Voiceless Epiglottal Fricative
> > (Small Capital H) > > >xa ............. Voiceless Uvular
> > Fricative (Chi)
> > > > >ha ............. Voiceless Glottal Fricative (Lower Case
> > H) > > >ksha or xa ..... Aveolo-palatal Fricative (Curly Tail
> > C) > > >jya ............ Voiced Palatal Approximant( Lower
> > case J) > > >ra(?)
> > > > >ra(?)
> > > > >
> > > > >In the above chart there has been quite a few deviations
> > from the > > >devanagari system. For Example the "sha, shha,
> > sa" have been > > >transliterated as "xha, xhha, xa" because
> > unlike Hindi or Sanskrit, > > >the "s" in those is often
> > pronounced as "x" e.g. Axam in assamese > > >instead of Asam
> > in Hindi. Also the "va" has been transliterated as > > >"wa"
> > in Assamese.
> > > > >
> > > > >I stated before and I repeat now, that I am not a
> > phonetician. What > > >I am trying to do is to present enough
> > starting material for a > > >debate so that the long-standing
> > dispute on how Assamese words > > >should be transliterated
> > into english might be put to rest once and > > >for all. The
> > sounds I have "suggested" for the corresponing Assamese > >
> > >Alphabet is by no means the final word nor do I claim that all of
> > > > >them are correct....It is simply a suggestion so that it
> > can be > > >discussed and the correct sounds be recorded. I
> > have tried to model > > >the above on the transliteration
> > charts of ancient Egyptian. > > >
> > > > >If a system like the one stated above can be agreed upon
> > by one and > > >all, then to transcribe Assamese words we just
> > have to replace the > > >assamese letters with their
> > corresponding english group of > > >alphabets..(omitting the
> > the "a" in the consonants whne they appear > > >at the end of
> > the word). It will remove all ambiguity whatsoever on > > >the
> > question of how an assamese word should be written in English. >
> > > >
> > > > >The only way the system envisioned can be a success is if
> > people > > >debate over the transliteration and the sounds of
> > the language until > > >it reaches an acceptable level of
> > accuracy.
> > > > >
> > > > >The reference to the devnagari script transliteration
> > chart can be > > >found at...
> > > > >http://www.angelfire.com/linux/tugg/devnagari.html
> > > > >
> > > > >The IPA help file which contains the IPA chart and all the
> > sound > > >files for individual sound for reference can be
> > downloaded from > >
> > >http://www.sil.org/computing/speechtools/softdev2/Downloads2/SatDL2/Release2/setup-ih.exe
> > > > >
> > > > >or you can go to the link from
> > > > >
> > > > >http://www.angelfire.com/linux/tugg/devnagari.html
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >yours,
> > > > >
> > > > >Syamanta Saikia
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >_________________________________________________________________
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