> In all the languages, Assembler, Cobol, PL/1 and REXX, we have a usage
> guide, that tells us how to "run" the source program, and a reference
> guide that rells us about the language elements.
Ken,
I think the problem is the initial concept of "what is assembler
language?". The machine instructions are not really "assembler
language". They are a hardware feature exploited by "assembler
language". The same thing with I-O and other macros. They are tools
created by a specific group to make it easier to do 'something' with
'machine instructions'.
The HLASM is really a programming language tool that lets you combine
the above items (macros and machine instructions) into a working
program. And it has it's own language. Things like labels, comments,
variables, etc.
I believe that IBM has correctly spit up the manuals. I think what you
really want is a 'POP User's Guide'. That is Appendix A in the POP.
Maybe it would be better to split it out of the base POP, but at least
we have it somewhere.
Personally, I think the POP has gotten too big. It's over 1400 pages and
growing. I also agree with an earlier poster that I had rather see less
combining of instructions as sometimes the exceptions get lost.
Tony Thigpen
PS, please consider the aspect that almost everyone now 'top post'.
(Yes, I know, early users advocated 'bottom post', but times have
changed and left that standard behind.)
-----Original Message -----
From: Ken Brick
Sent: 08/23/2011 05:55 AM
On 23/08/2011 07:05 AM, Steve Comstock wrote:
On 8/22/2011 2:29 PM, John Walker wrote:
In regards to the comments about IBM assembler manuals:
The biggest issue for me is that NONE of their manuals
in pdf or tso datasets have any easy connectivity.
You mean to each other? I'm not sure what 'connectivity' means
in this context.
I am sorry, but I don't know the answer to the following question:
Do I look it up in POOP or in Language Reference?
AND that is crucial to know. NOT knowing where to look I always
have to look through x number of manuals. And by-the-way, it might
not even be in an Assembler manual. It might be in a totally
unrelated manual. So THEN, I have to go look through ALL IBM
manuals on the face of the planet. PLEASE. That's just wrong
and it wastes your valuable time. You know how I avoid that?
I keep everything I want to know, regardless of what it's about
in ONE flat file on the mainframe. I keep a consistent naming
convention for each 'how to' entry and so GENERALLY I know how
to find the info I'm looking for. Table of contents? It's nice,
but my next question would be then, 'which chapter do I look in?'.
I don't know which chapter something is in sometimes(or most of
the time), so here we go again. Looking through all of the TOC
entries in this book, then this one, then this one... Again,
that's not good. Yes, some of you know how and where to
look. I don't, and I never have in IBM manuals. And yet,
with the way I keep notes, I can ALWAYS find what I need. More
importantly, for anybody except experts, it's a technique which
would be best for EVERYONE(unless you have a preferrence to take
longer finding something). So, my goal would be to get IBM to
implement one file for anything which has an Assembler related
datum in it. Then provide a simple, non-techie-cized search
algorithm to find things. Keep it up-to-date everytime there
is any new procedure, instruction, or problem found with an
Assembler instruction or a procedure implemented in Assembler.
Get a grip man! It's not that hard:
* If your question is hardware instruction related, it's the PoO
* If your question is about Assembling, limits of the
Assembler, and Assembler statements, it's the Language Reference
* If your question is about files, it's in one of two docs:
+ Using Data Sets - narratives
+ Macro Instructions for Data Sets - macro syntax
* If you want to know about a service, then:
+ MVS Assembler Services Guide - narratives
+ MVS Assembler Services Reference (2 volumes) - macro syntax
* If it's how to bind (a.k.a. link edit), look in MVS Program Management
The important thing is to frame your question clearly to begin with.
BTW, yes I know about IBMIN.
?? Don't know what that is.
It's ok for looking for some things, but it has significant
irrelevancy in what searches done on it finds.
If you say so.
I still say the important thing is to think clearly before
you start floundering around in the manuals.
--
Kind regards,
-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.
303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com
* Special promotion: 15% off on all DB2 training classes
scheduled by September 1, taught by year end 2011
* Check out our entire DB2 curriculum at:
http://www.trainersfriend.com/DB2_and_VSAM_courses/DB2curric.htm
Steve,
I know your business is education and I believe that education is
showing the linkages between information sources.
As I implied in,earlier reply to a different thread that the "assembler
manual" that needed rewriting was the Principles of Operations while
know re state my belief that what is needed is a "Usage Guide to Machine
Instructions".
In all the languages, Assembler, Cobol, PL/1 and REXX, we have a usage
guide, that tells us how to "run" the source program, and a reference
guide that rells us about the language elements.
What we don't have in most languages is a guide to how to use the elements
