guys, seriously please move this thread offlist. thank you
---------- Original Message ----------- From: Matthew Rubenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: C F <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Asterisk-Biz <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, 05 Oct 2006 21:52:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Re: OT: Gore Still Ahead > On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 19:53 -0400, C F wrote: > > On 10/5/06, Matthew Rubenstein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Thu, 2006-10-05 at 12:02 -0500, James wrote: > > > > OK, > > > > > > > > Send your kid to public school. > > > > If he survives the random shootings and the drugs, > > > > > > Practically everyone survives public school without any shootings. The > > > drugs are even worse in private schools (I can attest), as can be the > > > violence (ditto). Home schooling can create kids with even worse > > > antisocial problems. > > > > I went to private school all my life, I have never seen what drugs > > looks like in real life (not even outside school), and yes I grew up > > in Brooklyn. I guess the private school you went to is worse than the > > public school system. > > I do agree though on the home schooling. > > I went to private school in the 1980s in the richest zipcode in the > USA > (2 miles outside NYC). Drugs everywhere. I also went to Andover, > Bush Jr's highschool: drugs anywhere. And I live in Brooklyn, which > has had so much drug use that it takes willful shelter to never see > it (which is available in some private schools). Avoiding all > contact with drugs is mainly dependent on one's parents, with which > I'm sure we both agree. > > > > > then you can send him to > > > > the District of Columbia to be an aid. > > > > There he can be influenced by powereful men (and women) to do some > > > > really > > > > neat things. > > > > > > That is clearly the problem. The power of politicians to escape > > > responsibility exactly when they must be *more* responsible than the > > > general public. The government as a whole is infected: cops can kill > > > someone without justification and just get fired, when anyone else would > > > go to jail. America has reversed our fundamental philosophy of > > > distrusting the government, running it so wrongdoers are more easily > > > caught, into creating a privileged class (which is increasingly > > > hereditary, in dynasties). > > > > Couldn't agree more with you on this, it's a problem with any type of > > government; > > > > "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation > > with the average voter." > > > > ~ Winston Churchill > > > > "Democracy is the worst form of government except for all those others > > that have been tried." > > > > ~ Winston Churchill > > There we go, agreeing again. > > > > > He can live in a city where violent crime is high and civilians can't buy a > > > > handgun to protect themselves. > > > > > > Or in the country where people shoot each other because they can > > > get > > > away with it. NYC was much less safe when we could easily buy handguns. > > > The violent crime rates are usually higher where guns are easier to get. > > > More urban states are more or less in the middle, so clearly there's > > > another controlling factor than whether a target lives in a city or not. > > > > It is still very easy to get a handgun in the City, it's just very > > hard to hide it. The NYPD at the moment has more intelligence on the > > street than the CIA has about OBL. They are one of the most > > sophisticated intelligence agency that exists, except that it gathers > > intelligence only for street crimes and not for politics, or military. > > Their crime stats program doesn't allow for either a cop to get > > corrupted in a neighborhood, or for the crime to jump just in one > > place. > > No, it's not easy. Believe me, my family has had handguns and other > guns for generations, often defending family businesses in bad areas > of NYC (Manhattan, Brooklyn, the Bronx). I've known of people > getting illegal guns to buttress their paranoia through the decades. > And it's much harder now to get a gun in NYC. So much harder that > most of them come from other states, but still fewer come in. > > If you're using cop corruption as a measure of how tight is NYPD > intel, then you should at least read the NY Post, though Google can > help, too: > http://www.google.com/search?q=%22corrupt%20cops%22%20nyc%20-movie% > 20-film . Much tighter, of course, is the "Blue Wall" that covers up > cop corruption. And then there's the stats that cover up NYC crime > rates, converting violent crimes to less enraging stats. And then > there's the crimes by cops who intimidate people into keeping their > crimes in the neighborhoods cops don't protect, so they don't get > reported. Most of the crime drop is the result of social services > since the late 1960s that have reduced the numbers of desperate > people who do crime. But I don't expect you believe that, because it > shows how abortions, foster care, violence education, job training, > and other engagement of poor people by government people can make > everyone's lives better, without using a gun to get there. AFAICT, > we don't agree that much. > > > > > While he is learing how to avoid being raped or mugged, he can dodge the > > > > terrorist plane crashings. > > > > > > I don't think a single incident has any statistical significance. > > > I > > > don't think the 9/11/2001 planebombings indicate anything about what > > > it's like to live in a city, or have anything to do with any of this. > > > Except maybe a reflection of how you hate NYC, and find an excuse to say > > > those planebombings are "just another bad thing that happens in NYC". As > > > a New Yorker, I think that sucks. > > > > > > > > > > Responsibility starts at home, with the parents. Would you really want > > > > to > > > > send your child out to play on the "Hill"? > > > > Most aids come from affluent households with educated parents. > > > > I would guess that there's not a one of them that would have morgatged thier > > > > house and loand Foley the money for a year, but they freely hand over their > > > > children... > > > > > > The bigger point being made about Foley's child molesting is how it was > > > being covered up by his fellow Republicans. How are the kid's parents to > > > blame for that? Even if what the abused page's sponsoring Rep, Rodney > > > Alexander (R-LA), said was true, that the kid's parents, when > > > "informed", said they didn't want to make a big deal over it, that > > > doesn't excuse the rest of those Republicans from ignoring their > > > responsibility to protect the rest of the pages. > > > > > > It's hard to blame most parents for trusting that their kids won't be > > > sexually abused by letting them work for Congressmembers. Until now. > > > Which is some of the extreme damage done to our country by Foley and his > > > coverup conspiracy. > > > > > > > > > > Foley screwed up and I think the latest remarks about alcoholism and > > > > being > > > > molested as a child are copouts. > > > > > > That's clear to us individuals watching closely, but already yesterday > > > I heard a 5-second radio news bulletin that mentioned Foley as a child > > > molesting Congressman, contextualized with "Foley claims he was abused > > > as a child by a clergyman". Millions of people are hearing this story > > > peripherally to their real lives, boiled down to those two details. > > > Foley deliberately threw that out there to define himself as "the > > > molested Congressman" rather than "the molester Congressman". What a > > > scumbag. And if others in his coverup conspiracy planned that media spin > > > with him, they should burn, too. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is time to clean house. Five year term limits for a couple of > > > > generations will do more to cure these problems than any arguments about > > > > Republicans or Democrats. > > > > > > I don't think that term limits do nearly as much as reporting > > > politicians' records to voters. When incumbents are found manipulating > > > the electoral process, that is a reason for term limits. But when their > > > party is conspiring to cover up their lawbreaking, their exploitation of > > > children in the government's care, then term limits mean nothing. Unless > > > you mean forced turnover of a party's majority, which is clearly > > > antidemocratic, though perhaps consistently republican (small letters > > > intended). The real reform is to outlaw parties as illegal conspiracies, > > > which they of course always are, even when they're not conspiring to > > > protect child molesters. Maybe just outlaw exclusive party membership, > > > but then criminal conspirators will game that system. > > > > > > I say we start by throwing out the party which has specifically proven > > > it is covers up child molestation by its members. Republicans were > > > getting thrown out anyway - it's a gift to them that they can blame > > > Foley for "losing Congress", rather than everything else people are > > > holding against them this year. > > > > > > > > > > James Taylor > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Jay R. Ashworth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk > > > > Discussion" <[email protected]> > > > > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 10:04 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] Re: OT: Gore Still Ahead > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 05, 2006 at 12:03:28AM -0400, Matthew Rubenstein wrote: > > > > >> Are you looking for ways to excuse the child molesting Foley did just > > > > >> because he continued carrying on after the boys were legally men? > > > > > > > > > > Let's be *perfectly clear* here, shall we? > > > > > > > > > > "Talking dirty" to them does not constitute "child molestation" under > > > > > any construction of anyone's law that I'm aware of. > > > > > > > > > > And 16 isn't exactly a child, either. > > > > > > > > > >> What kind of depraved child molester protector are you? Other than > > > > >> "Republican" - that much is so obvious that it's redundant. Now tell > > > > >> us > > > > >> that I shouldn't go so hard on Foley, because it's not his fault that > > > > >> god made him gay. > > > > > > > > > > You can go as hard on Foley as you like. I hope he takes the whole, > > > > > sordid, hypocritical Republican establishment down with him. just > > > > > lets > > > > > be hard on him for the right reasons: he owed a duty to his > > > > > constituency not to get embroiled in a scandal, and he owed a duty to > > > > > those pages *specifically*, because he was or had been in a position > > > > > of > > > > > direct power and control over them. He failed in those duties. > > > > > > > > > > Would this have been less likely to have happened had he been out > > > > > about > > > > > his preference? (For men, I mean, not for boys.) Yeah, probably. > > > > > > > > > > Is it society's fault that he felt he needed to be even partially in > > > > > the closet? Yes? > > > > > > > > > > Am *I* gay? No. > > > > > > > > > > Do I want people to confuse me for Donald Rumsfeld? Not even on your > > > > > birthday. :-) > > > > > > > > > > You can tell the repubs apart from the dems because, by and large, the > > > > > dems utilise the tools of rational argument, and are calm and cool, > > > > > and > > > > > the repubs appeal to emotion, fear, and (dare we say this) terror. > > > > > > > > > > Not all of either side, certainly, but a statistically significant > > > > > majority. > > > > > > > > > > Alas, demagoguery works better with the electorate than pedagogy. > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > -- jra > > > > > -- > > > > > Jay R. Ashworth > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > Designer Baylink RFC > > > > > 2100 > > > > > Ashworth & Associates The Things I Think '87 > > > > > e24 > > > > > St Petersburg FL USA http://baylink.pitas.com +1 727 647 > > > > > 1274 > > > > > > > > > > "That's women for you; you divorce them, and 10 years later, > > > > > they stop having sex with you." -- Jennifer Crusie; _Fast_Women_ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- > > > > > > > > > > asterisk-biz mailing list > > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > > > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- > > > > > > > > asterisk-biz mailing list > > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > > -- > > > > > > (C) Matthew Rubenstein > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- > > > > > > asterisk-biz mailing list > > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > > > -- > > (C) Matthew Rubenstein > > _______________________________________________ > --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- > > asterisk-biz mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz ------- End of Original Message ------- _______________________________________________ --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com -- asterisk-biz mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
