John, Maybe a little more effort could be spent on getting the Asterisk 3rd party license server up and running and this would encourage more funded development.
I heard via a Voiceroute video that you announced it at Astricon which was good news as you stopped returning my calls/emails since the community first raised the idea over 6 months ago. I was hoping that there might be some post event announcements after Astricon but unless I missed it this appears to have died again. ....just a thought. Regards, Dean Collins Cognation Inc [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-212-203-4357 New York +61-2-9016-5642 (Sydney in-dial). +44-20-3129-6001 (London in-dial). > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-biz- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Todd > Sent: Friday, 31 October 2008 10:15 AM > To: Commercial and Business-Oriented Asterisk Discussion > Subject: Re: [asterisk-biz] General development funding: discussion andsurvey > > Craig - > No, that is not my inference at all, and I apologize if that is the > impression you or others received in reading my message. The Asterisk > Open Source project is as active as it has ever been, and is anything > but a failure at this point. My question is: could the project be 20% > more effective if there were a funding method to connect fee-based > developers with people who had requirements? 30% more effective? > 100%? Other open-source platforms have already done this type of > funding arrangement - would it work for Asterisk? > > I pose this question set at the request of companies and > individuals who have spoken with me privately (or publicly) about this > type of arrangement, and it is on their behalf that I am putting > together this interest estimate. Any mechanism that could improve the > Asterisk Open Source project is interesting to me, regardless of how > well we believe the current model works. If there's interest - > great! Let's see if it's serious. If not, OK, then things seem to be > working as they are now. > > I'd have you go back and read this more closely - this is not a > request to have Digium collect money - this is an open-source > suggestion for something unrelated to Digium. > > JT > > > > On Oct 31, 2008, at 12:09 AM, Craig Lawrence wrote: > > > John > > > > You are inferring that in this instance (with respect to Asterisk) the > > Open Source Model isn't working. > > > > As a consequence, you are researching alternative means of funding the > > existing Digium Open Source model. > > > > I would respectfully suggest that you look further into the reasons > > for > > the failure of Digium's implementation of the Open Source Model before > > you canvas the community with requests for funding. > > > > Regards > > > > > > Craig Lawrence > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Todd > > Sent: Friday, 31 October 2008 6:12 AM > > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion; > > [email protected] > > Subject: [asterisk-biz] General development funding: discussion and > > survey > > > > [sending to -users and -biz in a slightly different format to broaden > > participation] > > > > Summary: > > Would you help fund different Open-Source Asterisk enhancements, > > bugfixes, or documentation if there was a way to collectively > > contribute money towards the effort without a profit margin > > incorporated into the price? If so, jump to the bottom of this > > message and fill out the form on the URL provided. There is no > > obligation to anything by filling out the form - think of this as a > > "market survey". > > > > > > The Long Version: > > > > Everyone on this list is presumably an Asterisk user, advocate, or is > > in some way benefitting from the project. Your ideas and survey > > participation would be welcome on the topic below. > > > > Many coders love coding for Asterisk but often can't find the time to > > do it for free when faced with things like buying food, paying > > mortgages, and keeping current with their insurance - this is totally > > understandable. Many coders have and continue to contribute things to > > Asterisk at no cost, but these patches are typically their own > > "itches", where they have solved a particular problem of their own. > > Rarely do people pick up problems that are not related to anything > > they're doing, or pick up unrelated problems that are so large that it > > would involve 100% of their time for any significant period. Some > > people ("Bless your heart!" as they say here in Huntsville) work on > > bugs and enhancements that don't directly benefit them at all - these > > are the most valuable contributors we have - you know who you are. > > Most of the time, though, there is a directly relevant reason why > > people work on code and often that means more obscure bugs or feature > > implementations languish, though still worthwhile if someone were to > > complete them. > > > > On the other side of the scale there are many people or companies who > > perhaps would like to contribute to paying for various features in > > Asterisk that would be described as "large enhancements" or even minor > > bugs and annoyances, but do not have sufficient funds to pay for an > > entire project themselves. There are perhaps also many people who > > would like to help out Asterisk in a way that allows them to > > contribute funding towards the project, but they're uncomfortable > > sending money to a corporation and hoping that it gets eventually > > applied to OSS Asterisk (and I'm not only talking about Digium in this > > case.) There are coders available for a fee (perhaps much less than > > market rate, perhaps not - we'll just say "non-zero cost") who could > > do this work and would love to do it if they could justify the time > > spent. Open-Source Software doesn't always imply that the code is > > "unpaid work", and Digium's contributions towards Asterisk are a case > > for the benefits of having an income stream and payment system > > (salaries) that supplements OSS development. > > > > So there is a disconnect between two groups of willing consumers and > > willing producers - how do we bridge it? The answer some have come up > > with is "Let's create an Asterisk fund and collect money and disperse > > money to pay for work by community members!" This is a great concept, > > but the devil is in the details, and I've found that when money is > > involved, the detail devil is much larger and angrier than usual. > > > > > > The problems with this idea have continually been: > > > > - Escrow of capital. It is not feasible to trust that donors will > > be good on their contribution post-release. This may be because it > > takes a while for the code and economic situations change, it may be > > that internal paperwork processes take forever to get done (Hi, Raj, > > sorry about that delay from Tello!), or it may just be that a large > > portion of funders are flaky. I'm willing to be convinced this isn't > > the case, but personally I certainly wouldn't code a large amount of > > hours based on the say-so of people I'd never worked with before. > > Perhaps some sort of metric could be created for more reliable payers, > > like a rating system of integrity? > > > > - Agreement of project goals. Who defines the project? Who gets what > > they want? Based on money? Based on some arbitration? What and who > > defines "success"? > > > > - Corporate structure for payments. If there is an agent in between > > the coders and the funders, then what kind of agent is that? For- > > profit? Not-for-profit? Who pays for the creation of this entity? > > It's possibly the case that Digium Inc. is not the best place for this > > funding repository, though possibly that would make life a lot easier > > from an organizational standpoint. (not sure about taxes, though.) > > > > - How to pay? Obviously, the more the merrier, but credit cards, bank > > accounts, PayPal, and other payment instruments are complex and > > expensive. Payment to consultants is another problem - taxation may > > be a problem again. > > > > - Serious interest. This has been a topic of conversation for the > > last 6 years that I'm aware of, and none of the concepts or problems > > I'm bringing up here are new. However, it is discussed but no action > > is taken. Perhaps now is the time to serious look at this concept > > since Asterisk is reaching such a large audience. Traditionally, the > > number of people or organizations that would provide "seed" funding > > for something like this is low; possibly only a single organization > > (Digium) would have the focused interest and capital to create such a > > financial/organizational entity as a non-profit or other unrelated > > instrument. But who would use it, really? At what level of actual > > contribution? To convince Digium (and/or hopefully other founding > > members of some as-yet undefined organization) to put their money and > > effort towards such a fund/foundation, there would have to be > > significant interest beyond idle discussion. The bounty concept on > > voip-info.org has been around for a while, but saw only marginal > > uptake. I've been a part of three or four (or more) paid projects, > > but only two (the sounds-extras recordings, and the SIP session > > timers) have actually seen multiple contributors, and the rest were > > straight-up consulting. What companies or individuals would actually > > put money into such a fund, and would it be enough to make it > > worthwhile or self-sustaining on an ongoing basis? Those of you who > > re-package Asterisk for commercial purposes but are not active > > contributors of patches or enhancements: I'm looking at you, > > specifically. > > > > > > Before these fairly large problems get discussed, I think the first > > goal in this investigation would really be to see if there is actually > > an interest in such an entity, so that last point is the problem I > > think we can try to solve here first. To try to get some metrics on > > this that are something other than "around-the-dinner-table" > > discussions, I've put together a form to collect some data. If you > > have an interest in putting money towards some general fund for > > Asterisk development, we're at a stage in the cycle where your input > > counts. Please take a moment to put your data in the form below. > > Note that all replies (except for email address) are public, given the > > spirit of this whole concept being a community effort. > > > > All of the points above are open for discussion. Your comments on > > this thread are welcome, since this is truly a "community" concept. > > Since this topic has come up on many occasions, but rarely in a wide > > forum, this perhaps is a good time to determine if there is truly > > interest or if the methods that we have currently are sufficient. If > > may be the case that there is no interest - that's OK. It may be the > > case that there is interest, but there is no viable way to create such > > an entity. (Digium, my employer, is not putting itself on the hook > > for anything in this message - I'm trying to gauge interest ONLY.) > > You're not obligating yourself to actually paying anyone by filling > > out these forms, as this is just a quick survey of how large the > > audience really is. > > > > PLEASE keep discussion of policy, structure, and technical details > > here on the list. Use the form below ONLY for cataloging your > > willingness to pay for Asterisk work via some idealized mechanism. > > If you're a coder, a survey about that may follow later which captures > > your willingness to work for money, but I suspect that's a pretty > > well- > > known truism that needs little confirmation. > > > > Feel free to forward this note to others (your boss, your co-workers, > > other less-involved Asterisk coders) who may have an interest in this > > type of funding approach. I figure a month would be a reasonable time > > for letting this form collect data, but that's open for discussion as > > well. > > > > > > Form for your input: > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?key=pmllU1ebPNlhUl_3QHUqvAg > > > > Results: > > http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pmllU1ebPNlgCMhLQ2FaZRA > > > > > > JT > > > > --- > > John Todd > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-256-428-6083 > > Asterisk Open Source Community Director > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- > > > > asterisk-biz mailing list > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > > > _______________________________________________ > > --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- > > > > asterisk-biz mailing list > > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz > > --- > John Todd > [EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-256-428-6083 > Asterisk Open Source Community Director > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- > > asterisk-biz mailing list > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz _______________________________________________ --Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com-- asterisk-biz mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-biz
