Yes I think a major cause of spin accidents at winch sites in the Puchacz is the different characteristics to that of ships the clubs had been used to like the K7 and K13.
I still maintain that the spin characteristics of the Puchacz are far more benign than that of the IS28. I have had the 28 tuck in on several occasions, one particulary memorable event was when I was giving an experienced pilot an annual check, it so alarmed him that he got me to recover. (the truth be known it alarmed me as well!) I believe the reason for this tucking with the 28 may be more related to C of G, with a more forward centre of gravity caused by heavier pilots. John Parncutt -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Derek Ruddock Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:35 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] IS28 ADs (was Reasons NOT to spin for fun) Spin proof? Our new DG1000 spins like a top! I learnt to spin off the top of the winch in the UK, in a K7. It's a very different kettle of fish, as Harry notes, starting a spin at 1300 feet or so. Perhaps some of the accidents there were caused by instructors expecting the Pooch to recover like a K13 or K7. Regarding the IS28, I've spun them hundreds of times, and only had it tuck once. I've never been concerned with the spin characteristics of the 28, and recovery is always immediate. I've also never had a 28 drop into an incipient spin when thermalling, unlike a Pooch. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of McLean Richard Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2004 01:04 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] IS28 ADs (was Reasons NOT to spin for fun) Hi all - I thought we trained people to recover from spins because although our nice shiny new trainers are "spin-proof" most of our aging single seater fleet that the majority of inexperienced club pilots will fly are not? I just spent the weekend conducting spin-training in a puchacz ... and I did my own ab-initio training in an IS-28 ..the puch is much nicer to spin =) i don't "enjoy" spinning, but I'm definitely a better pilot for it. - Richard McLean --- Mark Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Harry Medlicott wrote: > > > Spinning accidents don't normally happen at > altitude, it is the ones close > > to the ground that cause the accidents. Training > at altitude undertaking a > > number of turns might be fun but I doubt if it > saves many lives. What is > > needed is plenty of practice at instantly taking > the appropriate recovery > > action when a spin is developing and, yes, > preferably when and if the real > > thing happens, you are flying a docile glider. > > Why make life harder than we need to? > > ANY flying activity close to the ground is more > hazardous than flying > a long way away from the ground. > > When you're a long way away from the ground, the > only things that can > hurt you are overstressing the aircraft, hitting > another aircraft, or > climbing high enough to become hypoxic (which > usually causes one of > the other effects) > > When you're close to the ground, there are all > manner of other > miscalculations and bad judgement calls which can > get you in trouble > by causing rapid height loss. If the rapid height > loss doesn't > terminate abruptly upon contact with geography, the > pilots options > are still limited by the loss, which might result in > a high-risk, > badly-planned, unexpected outlanding. > > If an aircraft's flight manual says it can spin, I > see no reason not > to spin it -- And furthermore, I see no reason not > to enjoy it. Just > like you can enjoy loops, chandelles, steep turns > and whatever other > aerobatic maneuver the flight manual says you can > do. However, as with > any other aerobatic maneuver, you should know your > aircraft and plan > what you're doing with full appreciation of your > abilities and > potential failings before you start, and you should > conduct those > options with adequate, well thought-out safety > margins. > > (hmm - that isn't actually limited to aerobatics, is > it :-) > > We're "making life harder than we need to" if we > conduct any > activity at all which limits our options when close > to the ground. > I know a lot of people who have a great time > spinning gliders, but > I don't know anyone who would do it below 1,500', > whether they're > in an IS-28, a Puchacz or anything else. > > We teach pilots to perform turns at varying speeds > and bank angles, > we stuff up their circuits, we simulate cable > breaks, we talk them > through stalls -- These are all things which aren't > part of *normal* > flight, but which teach the trainee that when things > aren't normal > they can still extract themselves from the situation > safely and > confidently. Why doens't a multi-turn spin at > height fit into that > mold? And if it does, how can you say that you > doubt it saves > many lives? > > - mark ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- This communication, including any attachments, is confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, you should not read it - please contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy or use any part of this communication or disclose anything about it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
