Richard, You probably have demonstrated exactly WHY we teach people to recover from spins. If you were to inadvertently spin a single seater, and responded by placing your hands on the canopy, then I'm afraid you would be frightened for the rest of your (very short) life, unless you were lucky enough to be flying a glider that self-recovered. The alternative of loosening your shoulder straps, placing your head between your knees, and kissing your arse goodbye would be just as effective.
The 28's in some circumstances, can oscillate: the nose of the glider can drop alarmingly in a spin, with the tail apparently going over your head. It's a little *cough* disconcerting, but providing you follow the standard procedures, the glider still recovers perfectly. I flew once with a very accomplished hang glider pilot, who knew the recovery action, and, in the spin, promptly buried the stick in the firewall. That DID cause the glider to bunt over, and caused a few choice words to be issued. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Neale Sent: Thursday, 23 September 2004 08:18 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: RE: [Aus-soaring] IS28 ADs (was Reasons NOT to spin for fun ) I was trained on Southern Cross's IS28s. I remember the first time a spin was demonstrated to me: I had no idea it would be so fast and so (comparitively) violent. I recall putting my hands up onto the canopy to brace myself -- all I could see out the front was the ground, rapidly rotating. Of course, the instructor recovered at will and without drama. I guess I've done a few dozen intentional spins since then -- and still can't say I enjoy it. Several times in this thread there has been reference to IS-28s 'tucking' (in or under). What exactly is that? I remember when I did my first 'unassisted' spin recovery, I pushed the stick forward FAR and FAST (with full opposite rudder), and while we certainly recovered, the instructor tells me that we went past the vertical for a moment. Is that a 'tuck', or is it some other, uncommanded phenomenon. ----- Original Message ----- From: McLean Richard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 11:38 pm Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] IS28 ADs (was Reasons NOT to spin for fun) > re: IS28 droping in unintentionally from a thermal .. > it definitely will, because I did exactly that on an > early solo! .. it also loses a fair bit of height > being on the heavy side .. I've never done it since > then though, so it must have scared me sufficiently .. > > --- Derek Ruddock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Spin proof? Our new DG1000 spins like a top! > > > > I learnt to spin off the top of the winch in the UK, > > in a K7. It's a very different kettle of fish, as > > Harry notes, starting a spin at 1300 feet or so. > > Perhaps some of the accidents there were caused by > > instructors expecting the Pooch to recover like a > > K13 or K7. > > > > Regarding the IS28, I've spun them hundreds of > > times, and only had it tuck once. I've never been > > concerned with the spin characteristics of the 28, > > and recovery is always immediate. > > I've also never had a 28 drop into an incipient spin > > when thermalling, unlike a Pooch. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of McLean Richard > > Sent: Wednesday, 22 September 2004 01:04 AM > > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in > > Australia. > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] IS28 ADs (was Reasons NOT > > to spin for fun) > > > > Hi all - I thought we trained people to recover from > > spins because although our nice shiny new trainers > > are > > "spin-proof" most of our aging single seater fleet > > that the majority of inexperienced club pilots will > > fly are not? I just spent the weekend conducting > > spin-training in a puchacz ... and I did my own > > ab-initio training in an IS-28 ..the puch is much > > nicer to spin =) i don't "enjoy" spinning, but I'm > > definitely a better pilot for it. > > > > - Richard McLean > > > > --- Mark Newton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Harry Medlicott wrote: > > > > > > > Spinning accidents don't normally happen at > > > altitude, it is the ones close > > > > to the ground that cause the accidents. Training > > > at altitude undertaking a > > > > number of turns might be fun but I doubt if it > > > saves many lives. What is > > > > needed is plenty of practice at instantly taking > > > the appropriate recovery > > > > action when a spin is developing and, yes, > > > preferably when and if the real > > > > thing happens, you are flying a docile glider. > > > > Why make life harder than we need to? > > > > > > ANY flying activity close to the ground is more > > > hazardous than flying > > > a long way away from the ground. > > > > > > When you're a long way away from the ground, the > > > only things that can > > > hurt you are overstressing the aircraft, hitting > > > another aircraft, or > > > climbing high enough to become hypoxic (which > > > usually causes one of > > > the other effects) > > > > > > When you're close to the ground, there are all > > > manner of other > > > miscalculations and bad judgement calls which can > > > get you in trouble > > > by causing rapid height loss. If the rapid height > > > loss doesn't > > > terminate abruptly upon contact with geography, > > the > > > pilots options > > > are still limited by the loss, which might result > > in > > > a high-risk, > > > badly-planned, unexpected outlanding. > > > > > > If an aircraft's flight manual says it can spin, I > > > see no reason not > > > to spin it -- And furthermore, I see no reason not > > > to enjoy it. Just > > > like you can enjoy loops, chandelles, steep turns > > > and whatever other > > > aerobatic maneuver the flight manual says you can > > > do. However, as with > > > any other aerobatic maneuver, you should know your > > > aircraft and plan > > > what you're doing with full appreciation of your > > > abilities and > > > potential failings before you start, and you > > should > > > conduct those > > > options with adequate, well thought-out safety > > > margins. > > > > > > (hmm - that isn't actually limited to aerobatics, > > is > > > it :-) > > > > > > We're "making life harder than we need to" if we > > > conduct any > > > activity at all which limits our options when > > close > > > to the ground. > > > I know a lot of people who have a great time > > > spinning gliders, but > > > I don't know anyone who would do it below 1,500', > > > whether they're > > > in an IS-28, a Puchacz or anything else. > > > > > > We teach pilots to perform turns at varying speeds > > > and bank angles, > > > we stuff up their circuits, we simulate cable > > > breaks, we talk them > > > through stalls -- These are all things which > > aren't > > > part of *normal* > > > flight, but which teach the trainee that when > > things > > > aren't normal > > > they can still extract themselves from the > > situation > > > safely and > > > confidently. Why doens't a multi-turn spin at > > > height fit into that > > > mold? And if it does, how can you say that you > > > doubt it saves > > > many lives? > > > > > > - mark > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > > This communication, including any attachments, is > > confidential. If > > you are not the intended recipient, you should not > > read it - please > > contact me immediately, destroy it, and do not copy > > or use any part of > > this communication or disclose anything about it. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----------- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > Find local movie times and trailers on Yahoo! 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