Paul Barts posting deserves a response. Firstly, let me congratulate him on putting forward a reasoned, intelligent contribution.
The reference to Puchacz jockeys was made with some misgivings as it has always been my principle to argue the case and not seem to denigrate the man. Yes, it was pejorative but not intended to reflect on the great majority of pilots who are only interested in flying safely and enjoying their sport. Unfortunately I have come across a few pilots, mainly instructors, who seem to take a delight in showing off to students their spinning skills to an extent that goes beyond the need for spin training. I hope that some postings do not reflect this attitude. I personally tell students that they are learning spin prevention training. We as instructors should emphasise and spend more time on stall recognition, incipient entry and prompt recovery. Instructors who give students one or two stalls and incipients and then proceed to full blooded multi turn spins are perhaps being a little premature.Emphasising safe speed near the ground and it being the height below which you would prefer not to demonstrate your spin recovery technique is vitally important. How many instructors show by practical demonstration at a safe height by flying at a constant speed as in a circuit at 1.5 V that by mishandling of the controls it is almost impossible to induce a spin? This is true generally of gliders, hopefully including Puchaczs. Demonstrating these things is much better than just saying it. My own experience is interesting in that my first club used winch launching and brought in a tug once a year for spin checks. Those being checked were quite happy using the correct recovery procedures. My second club was winch launch only and is was sometimes the case that it was difficult for extended periods to gain height for spin training. After trying the procedure myself and satisfied as to its safety I would spin train in a Blanik from no less than 1300 ft. and recover in no more than one turn finishing the exercise at about 1000 ft. Despite the most careful briefing just a few minutes before, on their first attempt the students on seeing the ground directly underneath would instantly pull the control column fully back and for good measure away from the low wing. I still wonder how most of us would react to a low level inadvertent spin. The Puchacz is undeniably a fine strong glider but we must recognise that it was designed with aerobatic training in mind and as such is supposed to enter a spin very easily at all C of G positions. If that is what you want, then go for it but if you want something which is designed around ab initio training and early solos with minimum risk to the pilot then there are better options. The comment has been made that training on a glider that enters spins easily produces pilots more competent in spin recovery. Is there any evidence that pilots who learnt their spin prevention techniques in benign, hard to spin, training gliders have an inferior accident record? If anybody can sustain this suggestion with statistics, then share the news with the rest of us, it is worth knowing. My interest in this matter has been solely to keep pilots out of trouble. The number of pilots killed worldwide while spinning a Puchacz, mostly intentionally, is to my mind a tragedy and we should do everything in our power to prevent any similar happening here. The contributions to this chat page will have done much to make our pilots aware of just what can happen and hopefully increase their safety margins, Have a safe and happy Xmas everyone, Harry Medlicott P.S. Has anyone heard useful comments about the PW 6? It might be a useful addition to the two seaters affordable for training. H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Bart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: "aus Soaring" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2004 1:59 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] my last word > Harry Medlicott wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >As the one who started the debate on the Puchaz and its safe? handling qualities, may I say it has been very disappointing to read some of the repsonses by Puchaz jockeys. > > > > > > > Hi All > > I have followed the discussion regarding Puchacz safety record, > particularly as it pertains to spinning, both here and earlier this year > on r.a.s.. I have a vested interest, as I am a member of a club that has > two of them. As well, I like flying them. As a precursor I should state > that I am a relatively new glider pilot having flown some 230 h in about > as many starts in 9 different types over the last 3 years. So you may > consider my opinions in that light. > > I have found Harryâs comments interesting in the extreme. Having read > all posts by the âproâ Puchacz posters I have found them well argued, > considered and largely well supported by the available evidence. So, why > is Harry finding them âdisappointingâ? Has he somehow got some greater > knowledge then those that he disparagingly refers to as Puchacz jockeys, > in what would seem a thinly disguised effort to make their opinions > count for less. I apologise in advance if it was simply a term of > endearment. In another post Harry stated âMy third personal conclusion > is that any club which imports a Puchacz until these problems are > resolved has rocks in the head.â, fine he did state that it is his > personal opinion, however given his standing in the gliding community it > is unlikely to be taken as such. So I wonder what gives Harry the right > to judge any club that chooses to import Puchacz, or continue to fly > them. After all if it is not safe to fly a new Puchacz it must be even > less safe to fly an old one. Therefore, by implication, all clubs that > fly them should ground them. I wonder how many clubs would have the > financial resources to replace Puchaczes by the suggested ASK21, even if > they did think this was a good idea. Whilst the number of accidents > ascribed to spins in this aircraft is disturbing, the number should not > be considered in isolation. The Puchacz seems to be the glider of choice > when it comes to spin training, so, is it surprising that it is involved > in more spin related accidents then gliders that are never used for this > purpose. Some claims were made that very experienced pilots were > involved in these accidents. Given the analysis by Bill Dean of the UK > accidents, it would seem that in certain situation experience counts for > little. Further, I recall reading somewhere that out of past 10 Austrian > gliding champions, 6 were killed in gliding accidents. Perhaps greater > level of skill may lead to the acceptance of greater level of risk (and > yes I do know that they fly in the Alps ï). > > I believe that such personal crusades against a particular aircraft are > ill advised. If one adds to it Mike B. comments about the Blanikâs on > this forum sometime ago, (quote from memory Q. would you fly one? A. âI > would not even walk under oneâ) it is obvious that a large section of > Australian training fleet has been flagged as dangerous. So what is a > newcomer to gliding that researches this group to think? Better walk > away. Given the often mentioned problem of declining numbers in gliding, > hardly a result we would want. And yet, I am not aware of a single > fatality in a Puchacz in this country. > > I was amused by a comment in this thread that we should discontinue spin > training as spins have been designed out of modern gliders. Whilst I do > not feel competent to comment on âspinabilityâ of modern gliders, it > should be painfully obvious to anyone that a very large proportion of > Australian club fleet does not consist of those ships. Most gliders I > fly were produced in the 70ties and 80ties (well, apart from those > Puches). Whilst I would love to fly the latest ASW28 with a ballistic > recovery system installed, at this stage I am not willing to commit the > 140000 or so dollars required. > > To finish on a personal note, I for one will continue to fly the Puchacz > happily, do the occasional loop, chandelle or a spin and feel lucky to > have an access to a glider that permits me to enjoy these maneuvers. > > Kind regards > > Paul Bart > > > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
