Re: [Aus-soaring] ACCIDENT & INCIDENT REPORTING

[Robert Hart]

Mark Newton wrote: See, this is the problem with having discussions like this on mailing lists. Mailing lists tend to favour people who argue their point of view in a vacuum, without considering any counterpoints. Hmmm - pot, kettle, black,  Mark??? :-) I've already described a couple of reasons why "regular factual reporting" of the kind you've proposed is bad.  To whit:   - It discourages people who are "sensitive" about humiliation from     reporting accidents/incidents in the first place; Reporting of incidents by the individual to the collection authority is anonymous if the reporter so wishes. The reporting of accident and incidents to the 'public' is done in such a way as to remove names and so forth to preserve anonymity. Certainly, people in 'the know' about an accident will be able to identify the individual - but then they already know the individual's identity because they are in the know and any opportunity for humiliation will have already occurred. So there is no real substance to your claim for either accidents or incidents.   - It relies on people getting hurt or killed to get its point across; Incidents are accidents that don't quite happen - there is no damage to persons or property.  So your comment is irrelevant to them. For accidents, it is relevant but it still does not invalidate the good safety education reasons for reporting them (anonymously) as has been shown in every field in which safety management occurs.   - It adds responsibility for extra workload to people who are volunteering     their time, and who probably don't appreciate having their spare time     eaten up on the insistence of other people who aren't volunteering theirs; Geoff Kidd is volunteering to do most of the work in the reporting. Your comment is baseless.   - It doesn't provide any deeper insight into safety than could be achieved     by writing about precisely the same issues without having to wait for an     accident to occur. Please consult a psychologist for the full answer to this - or just accept that you are wrong. You, personally, may not find this useful, but your experience is not the norm. "In the real world," those counterpoints would be addressed and incorporated into any proposal that was finally delivered.  On a mailing list on the Internet, though, someone like you is perfectly free to pretend they've never seen any of those points, and blithely continue with their original crusade without making a single iota of modification to their course. Seriously, Geoff, we might as well have never had the discussion, because it hasn't influenced your conclusion at all, has it?  You certainly haven't responded to any of those points in any meaningful way, so as far as I can see you've totally ignored them. I think that attitude is intellectually irresponsible.  I'm pretty sure that the ops panel will agree with that conclusion and reject your proposal; and when they do you'll probably feel disenfrancised just like Robert H does, even though the rejection of your proposal will have nothing to do with the intransigence of the ops panel and everything to do with the fact that the proposal never had legs in the first place because you refused to address the significant, serious deficiencies outlined in the four points above. Were the points you made significant, you might have a point.  However, as illustrated above, you do not. It would thus appear that your argument, by your own judgement, is intellectually deficient. Please go and read the GQ safety proposal at http://www.glidingqueensland.org.au/GFA/Safety%20Rev%203.htm for further information on the safety issues that require investigation and address. You will note that this proposal includes the information that professional safety management personnel who are also glider pilots are prepared to give freely of their time to conduct the proposed review. -- Robert Hart [EMAIL PROTECTED] +61 (0)438 385 533 http://www.hart.wattle.id.au

_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring