From: "Geoff Kidd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
G'day Graeme,
That's a good spray. Do you feel better now?
Yes, I do, thank you.
Herewith a couple of replies:
"Your reason is plain, vulgar curiosity" - That is too easy to say in
order to dismiss this issue. I don't believe you are right. I think it
would help our pilots and have given the result of a survey on this in the
past where other have agreed.
That only shows how widespread is the interest in a good piece of gossip. I
gave several arguments to back my claim that all you're after is crash
comics but you seem to have ignored the hard bits.
"YOU WANT IT. YOU DO IT!!" - Have volunteered to help. Can't do more
than that.
Yes, you can. An email to this news groups is not volunteering, it's just
grandstanding. Nobody in the GFA has heard from you.
"YOU WANT IT. YOU DO IT." - I heard you the 1st time.
Actually, on this list it's about the tenth time. It's my hobby horse. You
haven't heard it earlier so I thought I should raise my voice a little.
Besides it's a serious comment. YOU see this as a problem. I don't and a
lot of other people don't. If YOU want it fixed, in a voluntary
organisation, you need to do it yourself. But writing to this list is just
(as I said) grandstanding. If you're serious, you have to talk to the
responsible people in the GFA - privately.
"If more near misses were reported and publicised as you apparently
wish ......" - I just asked a question. Your logic is understood - don't
report them so CASA won't know. That's good stuff.
Yes, it is. But you'll have to hang around aviation a bit longer before you
really understand the wisdom of it. It was a bit extreme but I plead
provocation.
If you haven't reported an Airmiss yourself, and I haven't, that's because
we didn't have them. In fact, if only two reports were made, only two
occurred. If you think more occurred, who had them? I put it that way
because you aren't interested in the facts, only in vivid stories to
publish. Research like that done elsewhere on radar traces - where neither
pilot knew what happened - won't satisfy you. You're after reports.
Tabloid newspaper stuff. Crash comics.
"Weren't we having a discussion about why people leave gliding?" -
Can't you handle more than one topic? Or surely you aren't hinting that my
post might cause others to leave the sport. If the latter is your position
you have a bit of a problem, so keep taking the pills.
I know it's unbelievable but, yes. And I don't think I have the problem. I
don't think I'm unique in finding the way you seem to regularly attack the
GFA as distasteful. You want to do something, do it and more power to you.
You want to attack people or expect other people to dedicate their lives to
your private enthusiasms, I'll attack you. Even with Flarm you kept
complaining about the GFA's lack of activity. As it turns out, the GFA have
been in the project for some time and it's flourishing. Back off the GFA.
Best personal regards Geoff
...And to you too,
Graeme Cant
----- Original Message -----
From: Graeme Cant
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 1:32 AM
Subject: RE: [Aus-soaring] ACCIDENTS/INCIDENTS 2005
>From: "Geoff Kidd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> However I would still recommend and lobby for the GFA to further
>expand on many or all of those, to allow members to gain a further
>appreciation of the circumstances of each or most of them. The reason
being
>that the membership can learn from the mistakes of others and will give
>actual factual data more weight.
No. Your reason is plain, vulgar curiosity.
> What use is it to new and older members to read that description
from
>29.12.04 or the description of the accident on 13 May 2005 which states
>"Loss of control while landing"? Other than the motherhood lesson
"Don't
>lose control while landing" & "Don't let your wingtip touch the ground
>while turning onto final".
>
> More details are surely (or sorely) needed, and would benefit all
>members. If the reason for this brevity should be that the GFA don't
have
>more details, then the reporting system needs to be expanded.
Well, I for one won't be joining in that expansion. Gliding is not my
whole
life and I spend more than enough time doing administrative stuff that
other
people think is needed but which benfits neither gliding as a whole or
my
club. Even where there is some benefit, the time required to collect
data
is grossly out of proportion to the benefit gained.
In the case of accident and incident reporting, I believe large slabs of
many other people's time would be used largely for your personal
titillation. You just want a crash comic gossip column.
YOU WANT IT. YOU DO IT!!
Nobody gets paid for this stuff. I know of NO RTO/Ops who has the time
to
do it. I know of nobody with genuine qualifications in the area (and I
know
quite a number) who has the time or inclination to do it. Do you have
the
faintest idea how many man-days work are involved in investigating the
cause
of even a "simple" accident if the report is to have any sort of
credibility? That's why I say all you want is crash comics. The GFA
hasn't
anywhere near the resources to produce anything more respectable.
You began by saying you would "...lobby for the GFA to...". If you have
the
energy to lobby, you have the time and energy to do the reporting
yourself.
YOU WANT IT. YOU DO IT.
Send out the forms to all the clubs. Email them every month to make
sure
they know they should be sending in reports. Keep up the address
changes of
secretaries so the emails don't go astray. Collate all the reports you
get
and when you know of incidents you didn't get a report on, phone them
and
castigate them for laziness! Phone them again two weeks later when
they've
ignored you. After you've read the reports, send back to the clubs for
more
information the ones that said "wingtip hit ground in turn onto final"
and
make them smarten up their reporting and amplify the cause. When (if)
you
get some better reports back, prepare all the reports for publication
and
then send them to the magazine on time. Remember it's important that
all
this is timely. We don't want 3 month old stuff published. Then do it
all
again. Do it for 10 or 20 years because you think it's important and
nobody
would take it off you after the 2 years it took you to get sick of doing
it.
>(2) Am I correct in the reading of these reports of occurrences
between
>13 Nov 2004 & 19 Nov 2005 that, perhaps with the exception of the
"Canopy
>opening in flight" incident(s) that none of our Accidents or Incidents
was
>due to a structural of other failure of an aircraft?
Yes. Should we abolish Form 2s?
>(3) There are two "Near Miss" incidents that have been reported. Do
you
>think there might actually be more than that?
Yes, I do. Because a fair amount has been published on that precise
topic
and that's what the research shows. Why don't you Google a few of the
papers, read them, collate them into a form suitable for publishing in
SA,
get the authors' permission for your abridgement of their work, ask the
GFA
for money to pay the copyright fees and then publish a brilliant article
in
SA. I'm sure you've got more in you than just whinging in email groups.
By the way:
If more near misses were reported and publicised as you apparently wish,
all
that would happen would be that CASA would drastically curtail our
operating
areas (small glider danger areas would be declared in about a dozen
locations and gliding anywhere else would be prohibited). CASA would
not
accept the risk we pose to other traffic in the way we currently operate
if
they really understood what goes on.
Weren't we having a discussion about why people leave gliding?
Graeme Cant
>Regards Geoff
>_______________________________________________
>Aus-soaring mailing list
>[email protected]
>To check or change subscription details, visit:
>http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected]
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected]
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected]
To check or change subscription details, visit:
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
