Tim,
A well made point, but there is an issue aside. At Kingaroy, there was a
resounding vote AGAINST changing to a height limited start rule, and although I
was not present at the Temora pilot's meeting, I am told that the feeling was
very much "let's look at the alternatives" rather than "let's change". So, in
actuality, there should be nothing happening to the rules at all.
There are also a couple of pilot representatives who have not been terribly
representative of the pilots...
BT
----- Original Message -----
From: Tim Shirley
To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 7:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FW: Starting Procedure
Interesting problem this...
Perhaps we are all forgetting that the ONLY reason any change is being
considered at all, is in response to a motion passed at a Pilots meeting.
Most of the comments on the subject appear to be asking the NCC, which
consists almost 100% of representatives directly elected by pilots, to ignore
that motion... which in the past has led to loud criticism.
At the same time we have had a lecture in the benefits of direct election and
democracy from a large group of contributors...
Make up your mind guys, you can't have it both ways. Perhaps you should be
talking to the guys YOU elected, instead of complaining here.
I'm really happy to say I have retired :)
Cheers
Tim
Hank & Lorraine Kauffmann wrote:
Well said Bruce - I agree with you 100%.
In 17 years of competition flying, I can only think of 1 occasion when I
received advantage from getting into wave but I can think of many occasions
when I disadvantaged myself by getting into wave and being blown downwind or
starting too late. It seems to me that we keep dreaming up new rules and
regulations to make things fairer whilst losing sight of our main objective
which is to have fun on our annual holidays. If the whole exercise becomes
over complicated with red tape and rules and penalties, it all becomes less
enjoyable and we will lose pilots to more carefree activities. I copped a
heavy penalty once for inadvertently going a few hundred feet over the height
limit ( which was 2000ft below cloudbase) and as a result that site is my least
favoured competition site because it is just no fun to be constantly monitoring
your height prestart when cloudbase is way above you. Any increase in your
cockpit workload prestart is a negative in my opinion. You cannot make
competition gliding completely "fair " . All you can hope for is that it all
"evens out" over the competition period. At the upcoming Kingaroy Clubclass
Nats. we are going to re-introduce an allocated, rotating grid position. Any
rule that increases safety is worthwhile pursuing, but it seems to me that the
proposed rule changes being canvassed will decrease safety. The downside of
these proposed rules is worse than the minor issue we are trying to solve.
Regards to all - Hank
----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Campbell
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 08, 2008 1:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] FW: Starting Procedure
Hi All,
Can someone please provide a clear and concise explanation of what is
wrong with our current start procedures?
A couple of brief points:-
1. Thermal wave is very rarely a real advantage pre-start.
2. Having said that, it takes real skill to utilise thermal wave to
advantage.
3. Gliding competitions are a test of skill.
There is a well known comp pilot (who is probably reading these posts and
rolling around on the floor in stitches) who once described to me a flight
where he climbed 6-7,000 feet above cloudbase in thermal wave, only to land out
because he started too late to complete a 500km+ task. Those who didn't muck
around in wave completed the task.
The best way to dilute any advantage of thermal wave pre-start is to set
longer tasks.
I think that this debate could be a knee-jerk reaction to some recent
comps where there have been very large numbers of gliders per tug and launching
the class takes far longer than ideal, giving the guys who take off first an
"advantage" in that they are airborne for a long time pre-start gate opening.
The best fix for this is to arrange for more tugs.....or if (and only if) that
isn't possible, then mandate and rotate the LAST gliders to launch as well as
the first.
One way to combat the advantage obtained by a skillful pilot is to deny
him/her the opportunity to display that skill. I hope that we don't fix
something that isn't broken here and lose that skill. Or maybe the next step
should be to mandate that we all hold hands together and fly around and wait
for the guy at the bottom of each thermal to catch up before anyone leaves.
Cheers
Bruce C
2008/6/7 Dave Shorter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
-----Original Message-----
From: harry medlicott [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, 7 June 2008 9:54 AM
To: Dave Shorter
Subject:
Dave,
For reasons I am unable to sort out in the short term, am able to
receive aus-soaring postings but not send them.
Was hoping you could submit the following on my behalf,
Thanks,
Harry
Hi All,
The opinions by very experienced pilots as to the risks associated with
the proposal to introduce competition starting
requirements involving a defined maximum height and speed coupled with
severe penalties for infringements must surely result in this proposal being
reconsidered.
Despite this, the reasons behind this proposal deserve consideration.
These appears to be to provide all competitors a fair start, irrespective of
launching time. Implicit and explicit in the current rules is the provision
that the opening of the start gate be delayed on days when convection is high
to allow the last gliders to launch sufficient time to be in a position to
start at the same time as earlier launches. Hard to argue with this. An
advantageous start when others are still climbing to launch height can have a
profound effect on a daily score, particularly on days when an early start is
desirable for meteorological reasons.
So on days when shear wave or wave generally is available, what should
be the time delay before the start gate is opened? Allow for a pilot to find
his first reasonable thermal, climb and then travel perhaps 10 km to a start
point, find a suitable active cloud, climb to cloud base, accelerate to achieve
a high speed without entering the cloud, dive upwind through the skirt of the
cloud, hopefully connect with the shear wave and then climb 1/4,000ft at a
lesser rate of climb.Do it in less than 40 minutes and you are very fortunate.
Particularly in club/sports class the time to launch a class can run to
30/40 minutes. Add enough time for the last launched gliders to contact and
climb in wave and we have the early launched pilots perhaps loitering in the
start area for much too long and the potential to set a longer task or fit one
in on an indifferent or storm threatened day greatly compromised.
The answer assuming the aim is to ensure a fair start for all and not
unduly lengthen the start process?
Set a maximum allowed start height on the basis of about 500 ft above
predicted cloud base with the provision to vary this height at the time the
start gate is opened if the first estimate is incorrect. No pilot is going to
bother seeking out an extra 500 feet or thereabouts. An easier solution would
be to have a rule prohibiting starting above cloud base. Not ideal and subject
to argument but it would probably be effective in preventing major advantage
being taken of pilots accessing wave, if that is the aim of the exercise,
Harry Medlicott
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