Chris, Very interesting! One photo is of limited value to a disinterested observer. More photos might give a bigger picture! It may be/highly likely that to the said disinterested observer, there are other factors that need to be considered, that the single photo does not show. With this in mind, I wonder what the structural implications here are of just slightly (3-4 mm), cutting back the carbon fibre so that the edge is away from the terminal? If there are no structural implications, then surely this is the way to go? My initial impression was that in addition to the above, it would also be much easier to properly insulate the terminal, rather than insulating the "exposed carbon fibre edge". Did you contact the manufacturer regarding this problem? What was their response? Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris Woolley To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Monday, June 30, 2008 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Fwd: FIRE- FIRE- FIRE-ASH25E
Hi Ian, Another one in a new Ventus 2cxM in December 2004. While I was installing the microphone cable up through the circuit breaker / fuse cover at the base of the panel smoke started appearing. I disconnected the main battery and started investigating. The problem was a short from the positive connector on the 50amp circuit breaker to the carbon fibre. The factory had failed to put rubber insulation around the exposed carbon fibre edge. See attached Regards Chris Woolley ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Mc Phee Sent: Monday, 30 June 2008 8:07 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [Aus-soaring] Fwd: FIRE- FIRE- FIRE-ASH25E May be of interest to people with motorgliders and fly tugs - got an at length response from Dafydd Llwellyn to this email below but among other things he said after backfire apply full power and turn fuel off so as to suck fire into engine - does make sense when explained but we can only wonder if it would have saved Geoff's fire........Ian M ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Ian Mc Phee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: 2008/6/30 Subject: FIRE- FIRE- FIRE-ASH25E To: Every now and then with motor gliders I burst into saying FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE FIRE about 10 times and interestingly pilots have little idea how to react. This unfortunately take on a new light as yesterday Geoff Sims ASH25E backfired at start on on the ground and ASH fuse is now basically "ashes"of carbon fibre - wings and tailplane may be ok and this may be Australia's second most exspensive glider insurance claim. Probably the biggest was the Stemme 10 a little over 12 months ago which caught fire flying out of Camden and Neil and his Son were killed (engine in fuse in wing trailing edge area) When I shout Fire I expect 1 turn fuel off, 2 turn battery Knochen (Bone) Master off - like all boats have 3 if altenator pull circuit breaker and 4 locate fire extinguisher and remove from holder. Worth remembering. The other source of fires is overuse of disc brakes. The ASH25E like the ASK21Mi has the Midwest rotary fuse mounted 2 stroke (but oil injection) engine . Fire is my biggest fear in Aviation and actually every few years I have or friends have been involved in Aviation fires. That's why when doing a DI I turn on the electric fuel pump and sure enough once fuel in RH carby tray and that is why I really look for cracks in exhausts. Also when I have a backfire I stop and get out on middle of field and check engine as in my book engine backfire = possible engine fire. Here are a few fire experiences all except one known to me personally Geoff Sims ASH25E - probably fuel/backfire related Neils S10 dual fatal at Camden -seems engine fire Callair tug Keepit engine bay fire -fuel/exhaust I think Diamona h36 Hunter Valley regulator runaway overvoltage - electrical Diamona h36 Dave Goldsmith regulator overvoltage resulting in battery fire - glider was able to land at a airfield below - this is know problem to a good auto electrics man - need a good earth between regulator and alternator to prevent overvoltage from alternator. Duo Discus (not known to me) towed out by car with disc brake on - totally burnt to ground Geoff sim Laicair - electrical fire after take off duew to braided cable rubbing on power wire Pawnee at Coffs Harbour put out Mayday due to engine fire - crack exhaust blowing fumes onto fuel pumps- Commercial pilot was not doing a good DI -You really must check all towplanes between 100hlys Pawnee at Benalla during world comps Col Churches taxied Adelaide SC pawnee back to tiedown. I had stopped and noticed smoke pouring out of RH brake. I ran out with Yellow BCF extinguisher from my pawnee and by the time I got there flames were licking the wing and it took 2 seconds from extinguisher fire was out. 7 registered aircraft burnt at Keepit fire Oct 94 (biggest civil fire in AUS since war) but that was caused by a kid Simon McClurer who started fire- fibreglass gliders could be carried away in a bucket Kookaburra on trailer going from Kingaroy to Warwick and a mattress at nose of glider caught fire and all was left was a bucket of metal parts- cause smokers cigarette In addition I have had 2 domestic fires and one car fire and it is worth saying the car was a HB Torana (known for catching fire I have since heard) and that was the Carby and exhaust pipe on same side. A drip tray under carby as JAR22 Sect H Motorgliders requires would have saved the fire but I add a fire extinguisher put out fire quickly. A friend a LAME from way back always carried a roll of aluminium tape and he would often use 3 layers (good heat insulation properties) of this foil tape where appropriate and would often use extra a little red/orange silicon rubber sheet just to be sure. If in doubt use extra fire sleeving or extra heat shields. For those with Jabiru be on top of the 1/4inch bolts that bolt the engine pipes to heads (later models excepted) can leak or loose a bolt and possible fire cause. Also I never like battery with engine - I like a bone master that can turn off the battery and not a relay. Lets all learn from these experiences of fires Ian McPhee ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 8.0.101 / Virus Database: 270.4.3/1525 - Release Date: 6/29/2008 3:09 PM
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