I could not refrain myself any longer to throw one in here as well since I am not alone >>>"""I am surprised at the attitude shown by some towards it."""<<< I totally agree with Dave - bunged people of at 200' plenty of times and been thrown off below 200' during aerotow a few times myself. No difference between fibre glass / wood'n fabric and aluminum. Done *plenty* of 360ees of the winch as well. Winch 360ees at 250-300' : landed safely from enough height and with enough energy left: I had to use plenty of airbrakes and even utilised plenty of sideslipping (I know 'sideslip' is a taboo word here on the soaring list... my post might even be filtered out because of the rudeness of it's meaning). Never any hassles. Done plenty of turn backs in motorgliders as well. Been even introduced to the possibility to turn back from 350' in a Drifter recently - it works! I know, I know - everyone is jumping up and down now because it's sooooo dangerous. It's not dangerous if you are able to handle the machine you are using and you are actually awake whilst flying. (Fly clean - it keeps your undies in the same state!) I let students do idle-power 180's and 360's as practice from 3500' in the Jabiru so they get an idea of the brick factor and don't do anything silly below 700-800'. None of the gliders I've flown have anywhere near the brick abilities of those machines with quirls. My Libelle or the Byron Dimona use less than 50' for a 360 in calm conditions. What's that magic keyword of the season: situational awareness! (They come up with new phrases all the time - I was taught to be awake and not in lala land when flying, especially the lower you are. Switch on your brain before you get in the cockpit!) Watch that windsock at take off and make the correct decision of turning left or right according to your position and meteorological conditions. Same applies to the landing: know where the wind is blowing from and where you are in relation to the runway centre-line and where you are heading. Yes, the adrenalin rush is quite something (better then the ones you get from the rides at DreamWorld at the Goldie) - those rushes might be a bit much for armchair pilots. I was a bit disappointed during my recent pulley launch session because I was told by my instructor that I should expect a simulated rope break during any of my flights - was a bit like knowing month ahead what you're getting for x-mass... Always think and plan ahead, Murphy could always be just around the bend. The O in chaotic stands for options - keep your options open - think, imagine and plan ahead. An interesting read for anyone that flies: Preventing Launching Accidents by Thomas Knauff snippet at: http://www.eglider.org/newsarticles/preventinglaunchingaccidents.htm - I got the hard copy cause its excellent literature. (Yes, I admit it: that dude is from the northern hemisphere as well and things are oh-so different here in Australia... but even CASA is starting to see the light and is getting closer and closer to ICAO) ;-) What are we instructors supposed to do? Train and demand for a certain standard in ability by beginner pilots (L-Platers and P-Platers with less than 200hours experience) and experienced pilots - or develop a whole new bunch of wussies that get unstuck as soon as things are not working to plan and therefore turn into statistics? Unfortunately there is no common sense - that's why we end up with accidents. Accidents don't happen - they are caused. Simulated aerotow launch emergencies at 120' are stupid - they are a safety necessity at 200' in the right conditions - same applies to motorgliders. Simulated winch launch emergencies are safe from ANY height! A winch launch danger situation is present when someone pulls up too quick too low - no yellow handle there to top it all off. ...the planets are not alining anymore (we had that now...) - it's those holes in the cheese... Erich
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 2:24 PM, David Lawley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > Hi all, > > Terry said: > > > As for turnbacks at 200 ft? Not if I'm around thank you! Especially if > > I'm on the inside of the aircraft. > > > Having done the exercise several times myself from 200', and seen both my > son and another junior complete it multiple times, I am surprised at the > attitude shown by some towards it. I at no stage felt it was unsafe, > perhaps trying it would be an idea to have a go before expressing an > opinion gentlemen?. > > Consider, from 65 kt one can still do a 180 and need a substatial ammount > of airbrake to land. A 180 takes about 10 seconds. To hit the ground one > would have to have a sink rate of greater than > 12kt, disregarding the approx 100 ft margin slowing from 65kt to 55kt > gives. If the air over the runway was sinking at this rate, takeoff would be > impossible (Climb rate behind a 265hp pawnee is less than 10kt) > > After all there is not always a suitable paddock at the end of the runway, > just as land ahead is not always an option. > > > Regards > > Dave L >
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