And although it is a bit tangential to your original question
Nelson, some of us also like to potter around with equivalent horse
drawn zeppelins, see here:
http://toohardtodo.blogspot.com/ [1]
I will have all those troubles the hang glider people etc have.
Mandating a system which potentially costs more than the aircraft is
worth, fitting any electrical system (at all!) is problematical to the
weight and how/where to fit becomes interesting too (my instrument
panel comes away from the aircraft as part of the horse collar) .
Weight is a big problem, more than some expect. As it is I am
refabricing as part of the 20 yearly (it did need it) and trying to
scrape off grams in weight because it does make a big difference to
this old girl (100kg empty and 185kgs MAUW). Maybe it would be easier
to take the weight off myself!
All for an aircraft which will be flown a few times a year and most
likely away from population centres at a regatta of similar aircraft.
Regards
SWK
On Sat 27/11/10 5:11 PM , Nelson Handcock [email protected]
sent:
Thanks - I read this through a few days ago and gather this document
focusses on the cost not justifying the relatively low incident rate.
However, (as some have pointed out on this forum) the more situational
awareness that can be acheived the better, so it appears there is some
support for the instrument. I note some discussion taking place about
how to fit the instrument display in a small panel and the
impracticalities facing balloon, HG MARGIN: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;
BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1px solid">Send Aus-soaring mailing list
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To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 86, Issue 42 (John Welsh)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:30:10 +0800
From: "John Welsh"
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 86, Issue 42
To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'"
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi Nelson,
Suggest you read this in detail:
http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/CASA/ASAC_DP1001AS_Response.pdf [9]
Cheers,
John Welsh
From: [email protected] [10]
[mailto:[email protected] [11]] On Behalf Of
Nelson
Handcock
Sent: Saturday, 27 November 2010 2:10 PM
To: [email protected] [12]
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 86, Issue 42
Excuse what might appear a dumb question, but apart from the cost of
installing charset="us-ascii"
PowerFLARM doesn't appear to provide ADSB Out only ADSB In.
From: [email protected] [20]
[mailto:[email protected] [21]] On Behalf Of
Simon
Hackett
Sent: Friday, 26 November 2010 4:02 PM
To: Mal Bruce; AUS Soaring
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ADSB in gliders and sport aviation
Hello Mal (et al),
That device already exists. Its called a "PowerFLARM":
http://www.butterfly.aero/powerflarm/fly/ [22]
and/or
http://www.lxavionics.co.uk/traffic-monitor.htm [23]
This looks like its just about to go into full production.
Note that its quoted as being able to run for 8 hours on six AA
batteries
(or from a glider battery, obviously, as an alternative).
i.e. presumably the current draw isn't unreasonable.
That doesn't magically solve the economic question, but it does
suggest that
the actual technology you require here (along with a Mode-S
transponder, I
guess) is certainly available (or nearly so).
I must say that I find the notion of a combination Flarm and ADS-B to
be
highly appealing as a safety tool. Its eye-opening (literally) to see
the
thing the ADS-B in my Cirrus picks up before I see them out of the
window.
Regards,
Simon
On 26/11/2010, at 6:00 PM, Mal Bruce wrote:
Could flarm and ADSB run on a single unit I recall having discussion
with
Nigel about this how about your expert opinion?
Personally I 100% support technology being used for collision
avoidance the
cost of the units and current battery technology is minimal and the
shared
cost per aircraft far out weighs the cost of one life.
I am sure that negotiated properly some costs could be shared by GFA
and the
federal government CASA after all they want "safe sky's for all"!
Mal
CASA Discussion Paper Response - Urgent Action Required
To: GFA Members, Gliding Clubs and Regional Gliding Associations
Urgent Action Required
See the response by
ASAC to CASA relating to
Discussion Paper 1006AS In a nutshell, it proposes to
mandate universal fitting of ADSB and Mode S to all aircraft for use
in all
classifications of airspace. This is completely unacceptable to sport
aviation generally and gliding particularly.
The GFA will be submitting a response which will express similar
views to
those of ASAC.
It is important that as many responses as possible are submitted
expressing
concerns about the proposal and at the very least expressing strong
support
for the ASAC submission.
Submissions can be made easily by individuals and club
representatives via
CASA website "
Response to Regulatory Change Proposal".
Detailed individual responses would be preferred but a response which
just
expresses dissatisfaction with CASA's consultation and then notes for
each
item that changes would make it acceptable, with a final comment
supporting
the ASAC paper will at least get the message across.
It would greatly assist our position if each organisation can ensure
a
response on their behalf before 30 November and encourage all
individual
members to do the same. Apologies for the short notice.
Phil McCann
President
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com [27]
Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3278 - Release Date:
11/25/10
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2010 20:16:23 +1100
From: Mark Fisher
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] ADSB in gliders and sport aviation
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
Message-ID:
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Guys,
Swift Avionics will be the Australian agent for PowerFlarm.
Will advertise when it's ready to sell.
Cheers
Mark
On Fri, Nov 26, 2010 at 8:02 PM, John Welsh wrote:
> PowerFLARM doesn?t appear to provide ADSB Out only ADSB In.
>
>
>
> *From:* [email protected] [32] [mailto:
> [email protected] [33]] *On Behalf Of
*Simon Hackett
> *Sent:* Friday, 26 November 2010 4:02 PM
> *To:* Mal Bruce; AUS Soaring
> *Subject:* Re: [Aus-soaring] ADSB in gliders and sport aviation
>
>
>
> Hello Mal (et al),
>
>
>
> That device already exists. Its called a "PowerFLARM":
>
>
>
> http://www.butterfly.aero/powerflarm/fly/ [34]
>
>
>
> and/or
>
>
>
> http://www.lxavionics.co.uk/traffic-monitor.htm [35]
>
>
>
> This looks like its just about to go into full production.
>
>
>
> Note that its quoted as being able to run for 8 hours on six AA
batteries
> (or from a glider battery, obviously, as an alternative).
>
>
>
> i.e. presumably the current draw isn't unreasonable.
>
>
>
> That doesn't magically solve the economic question, but it does
suggest
> that the actual technology you require here (along with a Mode-S
> transponder, I guess) is certainly available (or nearly so).
>
>
>
> I must say that I find the notion of a combination Flarm and ADS-B
to be
> highly appealing as a safety tool. Its eye-opening (literally) to
see the
> thing the ADS-B in my Cirrus picks up before I see them out of the
window.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Simon
>
>
>
> On 26/11/2010, at 6:00 PM, Mal Bruce wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Could flarm and ADSB run on a single unit I recall having
discussion with
> Nigel about this how about your expert opinion?
>
>
>
> Personally I 100% support technology being used for collision
avoidance
the
> cost of the units and current battery technology is minimal and the
shared
> cost per aircraft far out weighs the cost of one life.
>
>
>
> I am sure that negotiated properly some costs could be shared by
GFA and
> the federal government CASA after all they want ?safe sky?s for
all?!
>
>
>
> Mal
>
>
>
>
>
> *CASA Discussion Paper Response - Urgent Action Required*
>
>
>
> To: GFA Members, Gliding Clubs and Regional Gliding Associations
>
>
>
> *Urgent Action Required*
>
>
>
> See the response by *ASAC to
CASA*relating to
> *Discussion Paper
1006AS*
> * * In a nutshell, it proposes to mandate universal fitting of ADSB
and
> Mode S to all aircraft for use in all classifications of airspace.
This
is
> completely unacceptable to sport aviation generally and gliding
> particularly.
>
>
>
> The GFA will be submitting a response which will express similar
views to
> those of ASAC.
>
>
>
> It is important that as many responses as possible are submitted
expressing
> concerns about the proposal and at the very least expressing strong
support
> for the ASAC submission.
>
>
>
> Submissions can be made easily by individuals and club
representatives via
> CASA website *"**Response to Regulatory Change
Proposal*
> *"*.
>
> Detailed individual responses would be preferred but a response
which just
> expresses dissatisfaction with CASA's consultation and then notes
for each
> item that changes would make it acceptable, with a final comment
supporting
> the ASAC paper will at least get the message across.
>
>
>
> It would greatly assist our position if each organisation can
ensure a
> response on their behalf before 30 November and encourage all
individual
> members to do the same. Apologies for the short notice.
>
>
>
> Phil McCann
>
> President
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com [36]
> Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3278 - Release Date:
11/25/10
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> [email protected] [37]
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring [38]
>
--
Mark Fisher
Managing Director
Swift Performance Equipment
PO Box 726, Lismore, NSW
Australia
Ph: +61 2 66221666
Fax: +61 2 66221633
www.spe.com.au [39]
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_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected] [40]
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring [41]
End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 86, Issue 42
*******************************************
--
Nelson Handcock
0409 149919
http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia [42]
_____
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com [43]
Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3282 - Release Date:
11/26/10
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_______________________________________________
Aus-soaring mailing list
[email protected] [45]
http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring [46]
End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 86, Issue 47
*******************************************
--
Nelson Handcock
0409 149919
http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia [47]
Links:
------
[1] http://toohardtodo.blogspot.com/
[2] mailto:[email protected]
[3] mailto:[email protected]
[4] http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[5] mailto:[email protected]
[6] mailto:[email protected]
[7] mailto:[email protected]
[8] mailto:[email protected]
[9] http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/CASA/ASAC_DP1001AS_Response.pdf
[10] mailto:[email protected]
[11] mailto:[email protected]
[12] mailto:[email protected]
[13] mailto:[email protected]
[14] mailto:[email protected]
[15] http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[16] mailto:[email protected]
[17] mailto:[email protected]
[18] mailto:[email protected]
[19] mailto:[email protected]
[20] mailto:[email protected]
[21] mailto:[email protected]
[22] http://www.butterfly.aero/powerflarm/fly/
[23] http://www.lxavionics.co.uk/traffic-monitor.htm
[24]
http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT
[25]
http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT
[26]
http://GFA.informz.net/z/cjUucD9taT0yOTU5MTQmcD0xJnU9NTAxNzk0NzQ5JmxpPTEzNT
[27] http://www.avg.com
[28] mailto:[email protected]
[29] mailto:[email protected]
[30] mailto:[email protected]
[31] mailto:[email protected]
[32] mailto:[email protected]
[33] mailto:[email protected]
[34] http://www.butterfly.aero/powerflarm/fly/
[35] http://www.lxavionics.co.uk/traffic-monitor.htm
[36] http://www.avg.com
[37] mailto:[email protected]
[38] http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[39] http://www.spe.com.au
[40] mailto:[email protected]
[41] http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[42] http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia
[43] http://www.avg.com
[44]
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[45] mailto:[email protected]
[46] http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
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