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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Early X/C pilots (rolf a. buelter)
2. Re: Early X/C pilots (Harry )
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 13:18:25 +1100
From: "rolf a. buelter" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
To: aus soaring <[email protected]>
Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Dear Gary,
I beg to differ from your opinion. On a lazy Sunday afternoon I'm
happy to embark on a cross country coaching flight in our Duo as I
expect to be back in time for a refreshing drink and still return to
my home at a christian time. With an ASK 13 and an crappy old
trailer I expect to outland, spend three hours in a fly blown
paddock and then 2 hour in the dark to put the glider into a crappy
old trailer, return to the airfield around mid night and be in my
bed earliest 1 am Monday. Besides all that I inflict the same fate
on at least 3 other fellow club members. N.B. - a flight within
gliding range of an ASK 13 to the aerodrome does not qualify as a
x-country coaching flight. At best it represents some thermalling practice.
To conclude a couple of personal questions, which you don't have to
answer if you prefer not to:
How many cross country coaching flights have you conducted over the
last 24 months?
How many of those were in an ASK 13 or similar performance glider?
How many of these gliders had a crappy old trailer?
How many ended in an out landing?
Come to think of it - how many out landings did you do last 24
months? To out myself - I have done 4 or 5 pre-arranged training
ones and none in anger.
With kindest Regards - Rolf
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 20:44:57 +1100
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
>
> Hi Derek,
> Hope you are well. This is a very late response to your email,
but as no one else seems to have made comment on your suggestion,
let me say that you have summed up the entire discussion in a
single line. Well done.
>
> As a rule of thumb, early X/C flights (dual or solo), should not
exceed 3 hours.
>
> There has been some suggestions that a good trailer is almost
essential for road retrieves. What a load of rot! A good trailer is
a great asset, but it is by no means essential. What IS ESSENTIAL
is that the pilot intending to go X/C is totally familiar with the
workings of the trailer that IS available. Quite simply, if the
pilot is not familiar with the trailer, then NO X/C for that pilot
until this exercise is done.
>
> Just possibly, said pilot might get off his a*se, and make a few
improvements to said trailer, if the trailer is a bit marginal
(almost always!), but in my experience, this is a rare occurrence indeed.
>
> Gary
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock
> Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 7:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals
>
> You don't need a DG1000: take the K13! (but don't go as far :) )
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of DMcD
> Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 6:02 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals
>
> >>the GFA pilot training programme for more cross-country
exposure during the ab-initio stage.
>
> Who said that!
>
> If only that happened more during training. IMHO, that's the
single most important thing for a club to do when trying to make
the conversion from student pilot to addicted and committed flyer.
Having done enough HG flying to know what I was up for, the endless
circuit training did not kill my enthusiasm but it can.
>
> My son said at one point that he was wondering what it was all
about until he got to cloud base on day? and I don't think anyone
ever took him XC during training.
>
> I have tried to persuade our club to stop the clock and some
point and say to students at some point, "this is not being charged
for? we're going to fly somewhere for an hour to show you why we all do it."
>
> I'm sure it would make a big difference to the number of pilots
who drop out after going solo. But then we don't have something
like the DG which would make getting home more likely than in a Grob or K21
> :-)
>
> D
>
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> To check or change subscription details, visit:
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>
>
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>
> -----
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> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 14:44:33 +1100
From: "Harry " <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia."
<[email protected]>
Message-ID: <2DDF805C8853432EBC9343C7430B55E9@harryPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
Rolf is right. A DuoDiscus or similar is an easy and pleasant way to
fly a cross country training flight. However not all and probably a
minority of clubs have access to a two seater glider costing perhaps
$200,000 new.
Please don?t discount what is achievable in a glider of the
capability of an ASK21 on a moderately good soaring day. At Gulgong
we had K7 competitions with up to 7 X K7s flying and the odd
Berkfalke or Blanik. Without the benefit of currently available
meteorological information, the tasks were in the range of over 100
km up to 250 km. Nearly all gliders got around the tasks. Sure it
took a bit longer with maximum speeds about 60 knots but they were a
lot of fun. These gliders may not go very fast between thermals, but
they certainly feel the lift and climb well. Pretty useful in a
training situation with an experienced pilot on board.
At lake Keepit we have a data base of airfields and it is possible
to set tasks which keep the gliders pretty close to one. Landing on
an airfield either allows an aerotow or easy retrieve. Distances are
not all that huge and retrieves no great problem with a reasonable trailer.
So please don?t frighten off those clubs or pilots without the
latest and greatest,
Harry Medlicott
From: rolf a. buelter
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 1:18 PM
To: aus soaring
Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
Dear Gary,
I beg to differ from your opinion. On a lazy Sunday afternoon I'm
happy to embark on a cross country coaching flight in our Duo as I
expect to be back in time for a refreshing drink and still return to
my home at a christian time. With an ASK 13 and an crappy old
trailer I expect to outland, spend three hours in a fly blown
paddock and then 2 hour in the dark to put the glider into a crappy
old trailer, return to the airfield around mid night and be in my
bed earliest 1 am Monday. Besides all that I inflict the same fate
on at least 3 other fellow club members. N.B. - a flight within
gliding range of an ASK 13 to the aerodrome does not qualify as a
x-country coaching flight. At best it represents some thermalling practice.
To conclude a couple of personal questions, which you don't have to
answer if you prefer not to:
How many cross country coaching flights have you conducted over the
last 24 months?
How many of those were in an ASK 13 or similar performance glider?
How many of these gliders had a crappy old trailer?
How many ended in an out landing?
Come to think of it - how many out landings did you do last 24
months? To out myself - I have done 4 or 5 pre-arranged training
ones and none in anger.
With kindest Regards - Rolf
> From: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
> Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2015 20:44:57 +1100
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Early X/C pilots
>
> Hi Derek,
> Hope you are well. This is a very late response to your email,
but as no one else seems to have made comment on your suggestion,
let me say that you have summed up the entire discussion in a
single line. Well done.
>
> As a rule of thumb, early X/C flights (dual or solo), should not
exceed 3 hours.
>
> There has been some suggestions that a good trailer is almost
essential for road retrieves. What a load of rot! A good trailer is
a great asset, but it is by no means essential. What IS ESSENTIAL
is that the pilot intending to go X/C is totally familiar with the
workings of the trailer that IS available. Quite simply, if the
pilot is not familiar with the trailer, then NO X/C for that pilot
until this exercise is done.
>
> Just possibly, said pilot might get off his a*se, and make a few
improvements to said trailer, if the trailer is a bit marginal
(almost always!), but in my experience, this is a rare occurrence indeed.
>
> Gary
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Derek Ruddock
> Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 7:54 PM
> To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals
>
> You don't need a DG1000: take the K13! (but don't go as far :) )
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of DMcD
> Sent: Saturday, 31 January 2015 6:02 PM
> To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.
> Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Two Seater Nationals
>
> >>the GFA pilot training programme for more cross-country
exposure during the ab-initio stage.
>
> Who said that!
>
> If only that happened more during training. IMHO, that's the
single most important thing for a club to do when trying to make
the conversion from student pilot to addicted and committed flyer.
Having done enough HG flying to know what I was up for, the endless
circuit training did not kill my enthusiasm but it can.
>
> My son said at one point that he was wondering what it was all
about until he got to cloud base on day? and I don't think anyone
ever took him XC during training.
>
> I have tried to persuade our club to stop the clock and some
point and say to students at some point, "this is not being charged
for? we're going to fly somewhere for an hour to show you why we all do it."
>
> I'm sure it would make a big difference to the number of pilots
who drop out after going solo. But then we don't have something
like the DG which would make getting home more likely than in a Grob or K21
> :-)
>
> D
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> [email protected]
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> [email protected]
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
>
> -----
> No virus found in this message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 2015.0.5645 / Virus Database: 4273/9029 - Release Date: 01/31/15
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Aus-soaring mailing list
> [email protected]
> To check or change subscription details, visit:
> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
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