For the rare occasion Mike, I agree with you that it's sensible have an independently powered backup.
> On 27 Apr 2015, at 6:59 pm, [email protected] wrote: > > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > > You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: varios, redundancy (Mike Borgelt) > 2. Re: varios, redundancy (Mike Borgelt) > 3. Re: varios, redundancy (Peter Champness) > 4. Re: varios, redundancy (Harry ) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 17:32:03 +1000 > From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed" > > At 08:14 AM 27/04/2015, you wrote: > > There???s no need for a winter backup now > > Maybe not a Winter vario as backup but you should > have a backup. Adam's advice is probably the > silliest thing I've read in a long time. > > The only time you may reasonably want to rely on > one vario is in a motorglider if you are prepared > to start the motor and fly home if the single vario fails. > > Too bad if you are half way round a 500km > triangle and set to win the Nationals if you do reasonably this day. > > For the paleo engineless gliders you are likely > to risk an outlanding with its attendant hazards. > Pretty stupid to risk breaking your glider or yourself over lack of a backup. > > If you are serious about competition you should > be equipped to cope with single failures of > equipment. Most people carry two flight recorders for good reason. > > A main navigation system and some reasonable > backup is also necessary. Hint: fly with the > backups working. The time to find out they have > failed is NOT when you've had another failure. > > The backup vario may also have a different speed > of response and will likely just display TE > vario. Your primary should be showing netto > (airmass) or relative netto ( airmass offset down > by the sink rate in circling flight - this means > it always shows the rate of climb you would get > if you slowed down and circled, no matter your > current airspeed). The two varios may show > slightly different information without changing modes which can be useful. > > We've all had even modern electronic equipment > fail. Phones, PC's GPS , etc etc. It is pretty > good nowadays but anyone doing what Adam says is > tempting fate, Murphy's Law and what a physics > teacher of mine called "the innate cussedness of inanimate matter". > > When you decide to use a backup you might like to > consider that the Winter doesn't have an audio or > an averager. Do you really want to be sharing > thermals with other gliders without an audio? If > flying cross country you would find you would miss the averager. > > If you have a backup electronic vario it should > have its own independent backup power supply. > While a glider electrical system can be fused > properly so that the radio for example developing > an internal short doesn't take out the main > battery fuse (and if everything dies because of > this or similar , are you going to simply flip > the switch to battery 2 and take out *its* fuse also?) I suspect many aren't. > > If you decide to join the 21st century for your > backup vario get in touch and I'll sell you > something you'll be happy to fly with when you need it. > > Mike > > > > > > > > >> ____________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of > quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 > www.borgeltinstruments.com > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150427/a7d1071f/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 18:00:35 +1000 > From: Mike Borgelt <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; Format="flowed" > > At 05:32 PM 27/04/2015, I wrote: > > >> If you decide to join the 21st century for your backup vario get in >> touch and I'll sell you something you'll be happy to fly with when >> you need it. > > We sold 1000+ B40's from 1995 to 2005. > > My US outlet told me many many US pilots were installing them and > turning off the audio on their LNAVs. > > You may find that the "backup" is the vario you like better. > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> ____________________________________ >>> Aus-soaring mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> To check or change subscription details, visit: >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> >> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring >> instrumentation since 1978 >> www.borgeltinstruments.com >> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring > instrumentation since 1978 > www.borgeltinstruments.com > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150427/b4291c61/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 18:11:11 +1000 > From: Peter Champness <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: > <CAPjQzugz7dEN-XgCetHVaW0gjw5to41=b-Vx-6W90=poyka...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > I have just been choosing instruments for a new glider. > > I did wonder for a moment after reading Adam's post whether I had wasted > money on the Winter Vario. > > However I agree with Mike. A set on basic instruments (redundancy) is good > insurance. In my case I have something in case of electrical failure. > > No doubt thermal can be found and used without any instruments, but it > difficult. > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Mike Borgelt < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> At 08:14 AM 27/04/2015, you wrote: >> >> >> >> *There???s no need for a winter backup now *Maybe not a Winter vario as >> backup but you should have a backup. Adam's advice is probably the silliest >> thing I've read in a long time. >> >> The only time you may reasonably want to rely on one vario is in a >> motorglider if you are prepared to start the motor and fly home if the >> single vario fails. >> >> Too bad if you are half way round a 500km triangle and set to win the >> Nationals if you do reasonably this day. >> >> For the paleo engineless gliders you are likely to risk an outlanding with >> its attendant hazards. Pretty stupid to risk breaking your glider or >> yourself over lack of a backup. >> >> If you are serious about competition you should be equipped to cope with >> single failures of equipment. Most people carry two flight recorders for >> good reason. >> >> A main navigation system and some reasonable backup is also necessary. >> Hint: fly with the backups working. The time to find out they have failed >> is NOT when you've had another failure. >> >> The backup vario may also have a different speed of response and will >> likely just display TE vario. Your primary should be showing netto >> (airmass) or relative netto ( airmass offset down by the sink rate in >> circling flight - this means it always shows the rate of climb you would >> get if you slowed down and circled, no matter your current airspeed). The >> two varios may show slightly different information without changing modes >> which can be useful. >> >> We've all had even modern electronic equipment fail. Phones, PC's GPS , >> etc etc. It is pretty good nowadays but anyone doing what Adam says is >> tempting fate, Murphy's Law and what a physics teacher of mine called "the >> innate cussedness of inanimate matter". >> >> When you decide to use a backup you might like to consider that the Winter >> doesn't have an audio or an averager. Do you really want to be sharing >> thermals with other gliders without an audio? If flying cross country you >> would find you would miss the averager. >> >> If you have a backup electronic vario it should have its own independent >> backup power supply. While a glider electrical system can be fused properly >> so that the radio for example developing an internal short doesn't take out >> the main battery fuse (and if everything dies because of this or similar , >> are you going to simply flip the switch to battery 2 and take out *its* >> fuse also?) I suspect many aren't. >> >> If you decide to join the 21st century for your backup vario get in touch >> and I'll sell you something you'll be happy to fly with when you need it. >> >> Mike >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ____________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >> >> *Borgelt Instruments* - >> *design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 * >> www.borgeltinstruments.com >> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 >> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 >> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Aus-soaring mailing list >> [email protected] >> To check or change subscription details, visit: >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150427/f0af5f3b/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 18:59:27 +1000 > From: "Harry " <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <9CF52A9225D348C1AAA7CBE066650405@harryPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi All, > > Don?t usually give free plugs but Mike?s B700 is about as good a backup or > main vario as it is possible to obtain. It has the works. A back up battery > and a good audio, averager and vario. About the same cost as a manual vario > but many times better. I have an expensive bells and whistles vario but the > needles move in unison with Mike?s modestly priced B700, > > Harry Medlicott > > From: Mike Borgelt > Sent: Monday, April 27, 2015 5:32 PM > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > > At 08:14 AM 27/04/2015, you wrote: > > There???s no need for a winter backup now > > Maybe not a Winter vario as backup but you should have a backup. Adam's > advice is probably the silliest thing I've read in a long time. > > The only time you may reasonably want to rely on one vario is in a > motorglider if you are prepared to start the motor and fly home if the single > vario fails. > > Too bad if you are half way round a 500km triangle and set to win the > Nationals if you do reasonably this day. > > For the paleo engineless gliders you are likely to risk an outlanding with > its attendant hazards. Pretty stupid to risk breaking your glider or yourself > over lack of a backup. > > If you are serious about competition you should be equipped to cope with > single failures of equipment. Most people carry two flight recorders for good > reason. > > A main navigation system and some reasonable backup is also necessary. Hint: > fly with the backups working. The time to find out they have failed is NOT > when you've had another failure. > > The backup vario may also have a different speed of response and will likely > just display TE vario. Your primary should be showing netto (airmass) or > relative netto ( airmass offset down by the sink rate in circling flight - > this means it always shows the rate of climb you would get if you slowed down > and circled, no matter your current airspeed). The two varios may show > slightly different information without changing modes which can be useful. > > We've all had even modern electronic equipment fail. Phones, PC's GPS , etc > etc. It is pretty good nowadays but anyone doing what Adam says is tempting > fate, Murphy's Law and what a physics teacher of mine called "the innate > cussedness of inanimate matter". > > When you decide to use a backup you might like to consider that the Winter > doesn't have an audio or an averager. Do you really want to be sharing > thermals with other gliders without an audio? If flying cross country you > would find you would miss the averager. > > If you have a backup electronic vario it should have its own independent > backup power supply. While a glider electrical system can be fused properly > so that the radio for example developing an internal short doesn't take out > the main battery fuse (and if everything dies because of this or similar , > are you going to simply flip the switch to battery 2 and take out *its* fuse > also?) I suspect many aren't. > > If you decide to join the 21st century for your backup vario get in touch and > I'll sell you something you'll be happy to fly with when you need it. > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation > since 1978 > www.borgeltinstruments.com > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > <http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150427/22ef1863/attachment.html> > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 139, Issue 40 > ******************************************** _______________________________________________ Aus-soaring mailing list [email protected] To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
