So in the interest of closing a loop to a question and generating solutions.
It seems there is a statistically relevant high incidence of power/vario failures at national and state competitions. Despite Murphy being a "catch all" easy fix, Its most likely that he isn't soley to blame in any circumstance. I'm going to go right out there and presume that people don't deliberately set up equipment to fail before a competition, therefore I can only conclude that there must be some sort of cheating, nobbling or tampering with opposing pilots equipment at a state level plus competition is going on to explain this statistical anomaly. I jest :-) . Kudos if you get the relevance of the attached photo (second best movie of all time behind Topgun FWIW) Other failure modes that have been specifically listed involve static system blockages and power failures. Ill start by saying the backup power feature on the Bxxx series varios is absolutely brilliant and cant believe this isn't universally copied by all manufacturers. Easy fix to one of the issues. Ill join in singing a B700's praises and say it's easily the best vario i've ever used. For the other mode of failure that I have listed as being specifically mentioned is there anyone with a backup TE//static system fitted to their glider? Given this constitutes a significant portion of notified failures then on my next glider Im going to have a look at coming up with a system to mitigate against this form of failure that will kill any conventional vario, regardless of backup power availability. As far as a backup against this short of a dual, switchable TE/Static solution the Colibri 2 does an amazing job as a backup (with audio) vario. I'm unsure weather this device has a GPS based, pseudo inertial compensation for changes in speed (if not then it should be!) however it is surprisingly sensitive, often beating my electric vario to a sensible average//climb indication. With regard to the vario failure = outlanding = crash scenario like everything in aviation it is a matter of risk mitigation. I agree, a failure of a primary soaring instrument increases the probability of outlanding however this has no impact on the consequence (Risk = probability x consequence). And so long as the outlanding is properly prepared with sufficient planing, thought and contingency availability then as Matty Scutter points out the probability of damage can be mitigated as near as is possible to zero. In a similar theme a pilot flying an aircraft sans audio vario does not make a default dangerous combination. That can be mitigated against with a proper scan, of which the mech vario should be low priority. Personally I believe the greater probability of a mid air comes from an aircraft not established in a gaggle. Stating the obvious but it's not the one you can see which poses the risk, hence when in a gaggle you can't just watch the aircraft around you. I'd even put it out there that at times in gaggles, your brain would be working so hard with the visual inputs it probably isn't registering the audio input anyway. This is the crux of what makes gliding so much more dangerous, a group of pilots, who haven't briefed (formation type) or established an agreed deconfliction plan in most cases, all flying within close proximity. Who is doing the lookout or clearing the flightpath for the "formation" if everyone is busy avoiding everybody? Without wanting to open a can of worms but are we actually obliged to adhere to the minimum traffic separation standards set out in the VFR? Do aircraft operating under the GFA have a formal exemption? Just like the VFR separation standards for cloud (based on an IFR aircraft appearing and there being sufficient time for the "see and avoid" principal, relevant to both parties, to save the day, which treats the probability, not the outcome. I assume this is why the <3000' AMSL or <1000agl exemption is there as there shouldn't be aircraft operating IMC at these altitudes. I think the point that Adam was eluding to was that a simple panel (ASI, ALT, 1x Vario, Radio, Flight computer) maximises time spent outside, by reducing the time required to read and interpret multiple gauges. Plus it is extremely elegant, makes the plumbing and wiring super simple etc etc. Having spent alot of time flying aircraft where the actual flying of the aircraft was almost a secondary role, I will say a simple user interface, with the required information being available quickly and clearly from an unambiguous source is of up-most importance. Imagine how good a flight certified set of Google type glasses with all that data being displayed without ever looking inside the cockpit would be!! Yours well and truly from cheap seats of a lapsed membership and no more glider to fly, James. On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 8:49 PM, Richard Frawley <[email protected]> wrote: > Had powerfail in club dg1000 in state comp. > > Used wintervario to complete task > > > > Sent from my iPad > > > On 27 Apr 2015, at 20:07, [email protected] > wrote: > > > > Send Aus-soaring mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > [email protected] > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of Aus-soaring digest..." > > > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: varios, redundancy (James Dutschke) > > 2. Re: varios, redundancy (pam) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 19:55:08 +1000 > > From: James Dutschke <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > > To: "Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia." > > <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > Straw poll. > > > > Has anyone, had a vario failure. > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On 27 Apr 2015, at 19:14, Nick Gilbert <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > >> Surely a backup electric vario is a more useful backup than a > mechanical? With its own emergency battery you get a backup audio and > averager as well as the needle. With all the stress that goes with a power > failure having to stare at the instrument would make things worse. > >> > >> Nick > >> > >> > >>> On 27 Apr 2015, at 5:41 pm, Peter Champness <[email protected]> > wrote: > >>> > >>> I have just been choosing instruments for a new glider. > >>> > >>> I did wonder for a moment after reading Adam's post whether I had > wasted money on the Winter Vario. > >>> > >>> However I agree with Mike. A set on basic instruments (redundancy) is > good insurance. In my case I have something in case of electrical failure. > >>> > >>> No doubt thermal can be found and used without any instruments, but it > difficult. > >>> > >>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Mike Borgelt < > [email protected]> wrote: > >>>> At 08:14 AM 27/04/2015, you wrote: > >>>> > >>>> There???s no need for a winter backup now > >>>> > >>>> Maybe not a Winter vario as backup but you should have a backup. > Adam's advice is probably the silliest thing I've read in a long time. > >>>> > >>>> The only time you may reasonably want to rely on one vario is in a > motorglider if you are prepared to start the motor and fly home if the > single vario fails. > >>>> > >>>> Too bad if you are half way round a 500km triangle and set to win the > Nationals if you do reasonably this day. > >>>> > >>>> For the paleo engineless gliders you are likely to risk an outlanding > with its attendant hazards. Pretty stupid to risk breaking your glider or > yourself over lack of a backup. > >>>> > >>>> If you are serious about competition you should be equipped to cope > with single failures of equipment. Most people carry two flight recorders > for good reason. > >>>> > >>>> A main navigation system and some reasonable backup is also > necessary. Hint: fly with the backups working. The time to find out they > have failed is NOT when you've had another failure. > >>>> > >>>> The backup vario may also have a different speed of response and > will likely just display TE vario. Your primary should be showing netto > (airmass) or relative netto ( airmass offset down by the sink rate in > circling flight - this means it always shows the rate of climb you would > get if you slowed down and circled, no matter your current airspeed). The > two varios may show slightly different information without changing modes > which can be useful. > >>>> > >>>> We've all had even modern electronic equipment fail. Phones, PC's GPS > , etc etc. It is pretty good nowadays but anyone doing what Adam says is > tempting fate, Murphy's Law and what a physics teacher of mine called "the > innate cussedness of inanimate matter". > >>>> > >>>> When you decide to use a backup you might like to consider that the > Winter doesn't have an audio or an averager. Do you really want to be > sharing thermals with other gliders without an audio? If flying cross > country you would find you would miss the averager. > >>>> > >>>> If you have a backup electronic vario it should have its own > independent backup power supply. While a glider electrical system can be > fused properly so that the radio for example developing an internal short > doesn't take out the main battery fuse (and if everything dies because of > this or similar , are you going to simply flip the switch to battery 2 and > take out *its* fuse also?) I suspect many aren't. > >>>> > >>>> If you decide to join the 21st century for your backup vario get in > touch and I'll sell you something you'll be happy to fly with when you need > it. > >>>> > >>>> Mike > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> ____________________________________ > >>>>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>>>> [email protected] > >>>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>>> Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring > instrumentation since 1978 > >>>> www.borgeltinstruments.com > >>>> tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > >>>> mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > >>>> P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>>> [email protected] > >>>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Aus-soaring mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >>> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Aus-soaring mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> To check or change subscription details, visit: > >> http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150427/4d47754f/attachment.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2015 20:07:48 +1000 > > From: "pam" <[email protected]> > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > > To: "'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.'" > > <[email protected]> > > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > > > YES in the Nationals. It felt like the wings had fallen off. I had no > backup?.. > > > > > > > > From: [email protected] [mailto: > [email protected]] On Behalf Of James Dutschke > > Sent: Monday, 27 April 2015 7:55 PM > > To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. > > Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] varios, redundancy > > > > > > > > Straw poll. > > > > > > > > Has anyone, had a vario failure. > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On 27 Apr 2015, at 19:14, Nick Gilbert <[email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]> > wrote: > > > > Surely a backup electric vario is a more useful backup than a > mechanical? With its own emergency battery you get a backup audio and > averager as well as the needle. With all the stress that goes with a power > failure having to stare at the instrument would make things worse. > > > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > > > On 27 Apr 2015, at 5:41 pm, Peter Champness <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > I have just been choosing instruments for a new glider. > > > > > > > > I did wonder for a moment after reading Adam's post whether I had wasted > money on the Winter Vario. > > > > > > > > However I agree with Mike. A set on basic instruments (redundancy) is > good insurance. In my case I have something in case of electrical failure. > > > > > > > > No doubt thermal can be found and used without any instruments, but it > difficult. > > > > > > > > On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 5:32 PM, Mike Borgelt < > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > wrote: > > > > At 08:14 AM 27/04/2015, you wrote: > > > > There???s no need for a winter backup now > > > > Maybe not a Winter vario as backup but you should have a backup. Adam's > advice is probably the silliest thing I've read in a long time. > > > > The only time you may reasonably want to rely on one vario is in a > motorglider if you are prepared to start the motor and fly home if the > single vario fails. > > > > Too bad if you are half way round a 500km triangle and set to win the > Nationals if you do reasonably this day. > > > > For the paleo engineless gliders you are likely to risk an outlanding > with its attendant hazards. Pretty stupid to risk breaking your glider or > yourself over lack of a backup. > > > > If you are serious about competition you should be equipped to cope with > single failures of equipment. Most people carry two flight recorders for > good reason. > > > > A main navigation system and some reasonable backup is also necessary. > Hint: fly with the backups working. The time to find out they have failed > is NOT when you've had another failure. > > > > The backup vario may also have a different speed of response and will > likely just display TE vario. Your primary should be showing netto > (airmass) or relative netto ( airmass offset down by the sink rate in > circling flight - this means it always shows the rate of climb you would > get if you slowed down and circled, no matter your current airspeed). The > two varios may show slightly different information without changing modes > which can be useful. > > > > We've all had even modern electronic equipment fail. Phones, PC's GPS , > etc etc. It is pretty good nowadays but anyone doing what Adam says is > tempting fate, Murphy's Law and what a physics teacher of mine called "the > innate cussedness of inanimate matter". > > > > When you decide to use a backup you might like to consider that the > Winter doesn't have an audio or an averager. Do you really want to be > sharing thermals with other gliders without an audio? If flying cross > country you would find you would miss the averager. > > > > If you have a backup electronic vario it should have its own independent > backup power supply. While a glider electrical system can be fused properly > so that the radio for example developing an internal short doesn't take out > the main battery fuse (and if everything dies because of this or similar , > are you going to simply flip the switch to battery 2 and take out *its* > fuse also?) I suspect many aren't. > > > > If you decide to join the 21st century for your backup vario get in > touch and I'll sell you something you'll be happy to fly with when you need > it. > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ____________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]> > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > Borgelt Instruments - design & manufacture of quality soaring > instrumentation since 1978 > > www.borgeltinstruments.com <http://www.borgeltinstruments.com/> > > tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 > > mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 > > P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]> > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]> > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [email protected] <mailto: > [email protected]> > > To check or change subscription details, visit: > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: < > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/private/aus-soaring/attachments/20150427/989024c2/attachment.html > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Aus-soaring mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring > > > > End of Aus-soaring Digest, Vol 139, Issue 42 > > ******************************************** > > _______________________________________________ > Aus-soaring mailing list > [email protected] > To check or change subscription details, visit: > http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring >
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